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*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***
- Thread starter Boomstick777
- Start date
Soldato
Windows deffinately needs a patch, it does not recognise the layout of the Ryzen CPU at all. This guy shows how it looks and how it should look.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/commen..._why_ryzen_does_not_perform_in_games/defc6un/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/commen..._why_ryzen_does_not_perform_in_games/defc6un/
Soldato
So they basically didn't do any kind of testing with the biggest OS on the planet during development??
Hard to believe!
Just to put this in to perspective even the latest Linux Kernel I belive has full support for Ryzen
So they basically didn't do any kind of testing with the biggest OS on the planet during development??
Hard to believe!
Just to put this in to perspective even the latest Linux Kernel I belive has full support for Ryzen
I'm pretty sure that the last lot of Windows updates got pulled at the last minute, so it's entirely possible that it was supposed to be ready for release but wasn't due to Microsoft pulling all the updates
OcUK Staff
In extreme tweaker top setting change from auto.
I guess that's in repsonse to me?
If so thanks, will have a look for that.
If its what I think it may be, is that where it just lists a bunch of memory speeds?
Caporegime
Once I have a Ryzen build (when I can actually buy said high speed 64GB RAM, not any time sooner) I'll probably do some experiments with CodeXL and thread pool scheduling.
As someone already highlighted I find it extremely unlikely that most old/already released games would get patched (for way too many reasons...), but new ones should have a very nice transition from console to PC for sure, as long as AMD takes developer relations seriously. I'd consider a change if anyone from AMD reads this
An OS scheduler fix is definitely the way to go for already released software.
I could also imagine a solution similar to what we have in GPU drivers: detect the game to be run, and modify the scheduler behavior accordingly.
Not really nice technically speaking (a hack, really), but should work - unlike waiting for most existing games getting fixed (good luck with that!)
Besides, GPU drivers do this for years to "optimize" GPU access to their chipset...
The problem with that is there are many popular games which are still being played now based on older engines and millions of people play them - AMD can't afford to just avoid them,as they will still be based on those older engines for the next few years
Many of these are PC exclusive titles too.
Examples include things like WoW,etc.
Nah thats a different setting. The one 8pack is on about has a list of D.O.C.P settings (1 through to 5? i think)
You can just pick a speed though and check the timing in the memory timing menu. think D.O.C.P is a bit buggy atm.
Soldato
So they basically didn't do any kind of testing with the biggest OS on the planet during development??
Hard to believe!
Just to put this in to perspective even the latest Linux Kernel I belive has full support for Ryzen
AMD cannot patch the windows kernel, or subsystems like the Scheduler. Only Microsoft can.
Nor they can develop their CPUs based on how windows work.
In Linux, the new SMT Topology for the Ryzen CPUs is already in the 4.10 kernel, and back ported to the 4.9.10 also. There are few bits and bobs missing from the kernel to be totally optimised for the Ryzen CPUs but are due for release also shortly. And this new SMT Topology is missing from the Windows kernel, and we have all these discrepancies, is already in the Linux kernel.
As for Realtek ALC1220 codec support, it will be released with the 4.11 kernel.
FYI ALC1220 is used in the Biostar X370GT7, Gigabyte X370 G5 & AB350 G3 and others.
Soldato
Hi guys,
...
Certainly interesting times
I don't know about the others, but all the three posts make sense to me
Thank you for taking the time to post here.
I guess AMD underestimated interest in existing games considerably... wouldn't be the first company to do that.
Apart from the games that get periodic code updates, the only way to fix those would be a better OS scheduler, possibly combined with a game detecting driver as needed. Most small/medium sized developers/publishers can't afford to go back to already released games and update them, no matter how popular they are - it wouldn't matter a bit to their income and many of them are one failed game away from disappearing, so they must concentrate their efforts on upcoming releases. The big publishers on the other hand think in franchises, and wouldn't retrofit code into previous iterations as they need to sell the next one. The net result is the same...
You should also consider tons of games using middleware (Unity and UE being the most popular ones) - backporting code to old middleware in the case of Unity is only possible by the vendor (unless you have source code access), and the situation is similar with UE3 in many cases.
UE4 source code is available freely though, but only more recent titles use that.
Even if you had the updated old middleware, you'd also have to restore your build servers etc. Easier said than done, once you moved onto new projects...
UE4 source code is available freely though, but only more recent titles use that.
Even if you had the updated old middleware, you'd also have to restore your build servers etc. Easier said than done, once you moved onto new projects...
Soldato
Just caught up, have to say the thread has got a whole lot more exciting since launch day now that people are actually getting their orders!
Good to see the B350 motherboards doing well with overclocking
Good to see the B350 motherboards doing well with overclocking
Caporegime
Its going to be an issue as some still have a huge base of players - games like both versions of Skyrim and Fallout 4 for example using versions of the Creation engine(or whatever Bethesda is calling it now). Sure AMD is working with Bethesda and hopefully the next Elder Scrolls will use Vulkan and will be optimised to run well on Ryzen,but I do think they need to keep an eye to some of the older games due to their popularity. OFC,I really hope AMD has reached out to Blizzard since they are one of the few very PC centric games devs out there and WoW and the Starcraft franchise are PC only and run on older engines.
One thing which might help them though,is some of these games tend to not really work better with SMT anyway,as the reviews don't show much regression with SMT on or off anyway with Fallout 4 for example,but if they can get improvements in Ryzen in such titles with some optimisations,AMD will definitely get some more sales IMHO OFC.
Edit!!
Remember,WoW alone has between 5 to 10 million players.
Caporegime
Pretty much only just finished installing all my apps, so the only kind of test of any kind I did was a quick cinebench run.
My idle temps seem to be in high 20s. Running cinebench it got up to 41.
Think score was about 1.2k. That struck me as a bit low?
My idle temps seem to be in high 20s. Running cinebench it got up to 41.
Think score was about 1.2k. That struck me as a bit low?
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Games like WoW (or anything with frequent code patches) would get updated, if it made commercial sense.
I have very little doubt that Blizzard, EA (Origin), UPlay (Ubisoft) not mention companies selling via Steam have up to date information on the hardware configurations being used by their active players.
Once/if Ryzen reaches critical mass in those stats, optimizing code for Ryzen will be done. Until then, the ball is on AMD's side to incentivize the developers/publishers. Regardless of that, older games will be an uphill battle and unlikely to happen not just for financial, but technical reasons as well. Hence my suggestion to make a game detecting CPU driver if it turns out to be needed even after the OS scheduler fix.
Came from 4790k as well. Didn't really think anything felt faster, but I guess for me the difference will shine when :
A) running a singular intensive app
B) running a ton of stuff
I do remember the days when any upgrade in processor or memory was like 'wow'