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*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

Frozennova said:
Sorry worded that badly. Tried both sticks individually across all four slots. Tried clearing CMOS and also using the backup bios
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If you can't get it going with one or the other Modules its going to be impossible to accurately diagnose, unless you have access to another AM4 system?
It could be a problem with the Board or the CPU, 'as has already been said' the chances of both Memory Modules failing at the same time is incredibly slim, I wouldn't like to guess what the problem is..... but, I suggest you need another Motherboard you know works to test the CPU in.
 
gavinh87 said:
This has been posted on here before by another user. He solved it getting a generic stick of ddr4, booting up and updating bios, then the faster stuff would work.
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This has been a working build since launch day, and it's already on its latest BIOS.

Don't know anyone else with a Ryzen build or even anything recent enough to use DDR4 so I'll grab a cheap stick locally during the week to test with.

Although after sitting watching the LEDs for 5 minutes I also have a suspicion it could be GPU, as between there's a slight delay between the LED cycling from RAM back to CPU where the GPU fan ramps up for a split second. It's also the only component other than SSD that wasn't replaced 4 months ago
 
Frozennova said:
This has been a working build since launch day, and it's already on its latest BIOS.

Don't know anyone else with a Ryzen build or even anything recent enough to use DDR4 so I'll grab a cheap stick locally during the week to test with.

Although after sitting watching the LEDs for 5 minutes I also have a suspicion it could be GPU, as between there's a slight delay between the LED cycling from RAM back to CPU where the GPU fan ramps up for a split second. It's also the only component other than SSD that wasn't replaced 4 months ago
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Does it do the same with no GPU installed?
 
Frozennova said:
It does, GPU is fine in my home server too so it rules that out.

Working on the basis that any motherboard I've had die in that past doesn't even power on and any CPU I've had die (read killed) has still posted I can only assume it's a RAM issue
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I tried a dead cpu yesterday, it powered the fans for like 2 seconds then turned off. Having both sticks die together is extremely unlikely unless pumping crazy volts through them.
 
gavinh87 said:
I tried a dead cpu yesterday, it powered the fans for like 2 seconds then turned off. Having both sticks die together is extremely unlikely unless pumping crazy volts through them.
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This will sit and cycle the diagnostic LEDs between cpu and ram for as long as you want to leave it.

They've seen maybe an hour or two at 1.3v trying to get them to run at 3000mhz with no success. Cpu had seen no more than 1.38v vcore and no more than 1.1v SOC, again other than maybe 8 hours of seeing what the chip was capable of its been run at stock

Had random BSODs on shutdown/reboot almost since day one maybe every 5 or so shutdowns. I always put that down to not bothering with a fresh windows install though
 
Tried clearing the CMOS through the jumpers and pulling the battery for 30 mins with the power pulled at the wall. Also tried booting through the backup BIOS.

Storage can be ruled out as I disconnected the only SSD at the same time as playing Musical memory
 
CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
Interestingly there are no 1000 or 1100 series SKUs. I wonder if that means AMD will have a 2C/4T set of SKUs.
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eddyr said:
I hope not, let that product segment die off for mainstream desktop. I'm sure the demand for 2c4t could be adequately serviced by the Zen APU.
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Panos said:
lol

Pointless chip would die 13 years later.
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Yet the fact of the matter there is no 1000 or 1100 series SKU - the rumours pointed to the 4C model starting at 1100,not 1200,and they are all above £100.

I am not sure why you think it is pointless - AMD has no new chips between £50 to £100 at all,and if the 1000 or 1100 chips were quad cores,AMD would be launching them this month as lower clockspeed chips.

Also,where have I mentioned a Ryzen CPU salvage?

This means another SKU is being launched later in the year to fill the sub £100 area so it probably isn't based on the current chips,and how do you know whether the first Zen APUs are not smaller 2C/4T chips in the first place,or even AMD having multiple dies for different market segments??

If you look at Bristol Ridge and Stony Ridge,they are actually two separate chips - 4C BR is around 250MM2 and 2C SR around 125MM2.

If they do the same with Raven Ridge,there is probably going to be different SKUs.

Remember,one area AMD is massively under represented in ultrabooks,which are all 2C/4T since they are designed for very low TDPs - can you imagine how tiny such a chip would be with even a decent IGP,and cheap it would be to make??

Even with a reasonable IGP,you will be probably looking at something sub 100MM2,and probably sipping power,and with a better IGP than the Intel CPUs and supporting higher speed RAM too.

Selling a 193MM2 chip for under £100 seems a waste of time for AMD,especially if Ryzen has such great yields and those low end chips are probably more likely to be sold in cheapo PCs too which need an IGP.

Intel also has worse SMT too compared to AMD,and the Pentiums have various features shut off too.Intel also locks the chips under £100 and will have a far worse IGP for gaming.

Plus what upgrade path has Intel got?? Even a £65 B350 motherboard can have a Ryzen 5 1600 in it fine!!

If anything I also think the Ryzen 3 range and lower end Ryzen 5 range won't be very long lived.

I expect AMD will have a larger die APU which will replace that range upto the 1500X with a decent IGP.
 
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Panos said:
There are APUs coming. Much more powerful than the quad cores also.
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The one with lots of cores is for HPC IIRC,but will be interesting if we see it on the same socket as the TR and Epyc CPUs. The APUs we will get for desktop AM4 are most likely a derivative of the ones in laptops. I expect there will be two dies - one a 4C/8T one with a largish IGP for the thin and light 15" and 13" laptops,and a smaller chip for the ultrabook class laptops and lower end laptops.

The higher end one has been rumoured to have 768~896 shader cores which makes sense,ie,they can run these at lower clockspeeds to save power in laptops and at higher speeds in desktops. I have a feeling the Ryzen 3 chips are probably not faulty,but disabled on purpose to reach that price point,as the APUs are not quite ready yet. But I expect they will replace the Ryzen 3 and most of the Ryzen 5 range and AMD will use the Ryzen CPUs to fight the upper ends of the consumer market.

They also don't need to make a consumer APU with more than 4 cores just yet as the 6 core and 8 core CPUs are perfectly fine in desktop replacement laptops it seems and these will most likely ship with a powerful dGPU anyway. The SOC nature of the CPU has its benefits.

Its why I think we will see a 2C/4T SKU,derived from the lower end APU in the £50 to £70 class so AMD can preserve decent margins,and the higher end APU will replace the Ryzen 3 and most of the Ryzen 5 range. Its why I think we might have not see the best showing of Ryzen yet. If AMD can use BD derived APUs with no L4 cache and still compete well with Intel IGPs using L4 cache,imagine newer gen graphics but with a much faster CPU??

The Ryzen DDR4 controller seems quite efficient too,and AMD does not lock its CPUs down as much as Intel.

Edit!!

Remember,Intel is selling 2C/4T upto £150.
 
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Panos said:
There are APUs coming. Much more powerful than the quad cores also.
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The problem is, if the APUs also start at 4c/4t then they are clearly going to be more expensive than the R3 1200 (4c/4t v 4c/4t + IGP). So unless they release 2c/4t or 3c/3t APUs, $100 is going to be the entry level cost.
 
I honestly don't see the problem with a lower end 2C/4T CPU - in that segment IGP performance will be very important for a lot of the sales AMD will make. The issue with the older APUs was:
1.)No upgrade path to higher performance CPUs
2.)The higher TDP variants could consume a decent amount more power than a Core i3
3.)ST performance was much lower
4.)The platform was starting to look dated
5.)The ones we could buy for DIY builds were behind Intel for media decoding duties(BR and SR have updated media functionality)

A 2C/4T Ryzen CPU will not have any of those disadvantages.

OFC,there is a possibility AMD might offer quad cores under £100 but these would need to be differentiated from the Ryzen 3 CPUs,so that might mean things like L3 cache being removed.
 
There were rumours of APUs having HBM memory as well wasn't there? Would definitely help with the IGP, I always found RAM bandwidth the bottleneck with APU performance. That's going to affect APU prices a fair bit if the high end APUs do include it. I suspect AMD will attempt to differentiate the APUs away from Ryzen as much as possible.
 
Orcvader said:
There were rumours of APUs having HBM memory as well wasn't there? Would definitely help with the IGP, I always found RAM bandwidth the bottleneck with APU performance. That's going to affect APU prices a fair bit if the high end APUs do include it. I suspect AMD will attempt to differentiate the APUs away from Ryzen as much as possible.
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The higher end APUs with HBM2 would make a lot of sense for laptops though - instead of having to bundle a dGPU you would have a powerful integrated one which would save a lot of space for the motherboard and cooling system.
 
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