AMD's FSR3 possibly next month ?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Imagine it was AMD who introduced DLSS and were still the leaders at it.

Would we be having the same conversation? Serious question.

My issue is not that the tech exists,its when its used to sell trash like an RTX4060TI. The issue is I fully expect AMD,if they can get acceptance of FSR as "decent" to start pulling the same tricks. Why do consoles do it? It reduces the cost of the hardware needed so the consoles can hit strict price-points. But dGPUs are sold at a profit,so this is primarily done to increase profits by upselling RTX4050/RX7500 class dGPUs a tier or two above.

Because if it works for Nvidia,they will do the same - just like many companies started copying the moves Apple did....because it worked. We are all to blame in some way. Also if AMD was ahead in upscaling at the start,I would expect people would be saying AMD sucks,because Nvidia has faster dGPUs which can do native rendering. AMD has to cheat to catch up.

 

[humbug]

My issue is not that the tech exists,its when its used to sell trash like an RTX4060TI. The issue is I fully expect AMD,if they can get acceptance of FSR as "decent" to start pulling the same tricks. Because if it works for Nvidia,they will do the same - just like many companies started copying the moves Apple did....because it worked. We are all to blame in some way. Also if AMD was ahead in upscaling at the start,I would expect people would be saying AMD sucks,because Nvidia has faster dGPUs which can do native rendering. AMD has to cheat to catchup.

Right exactly, while at the same time people look to AMD to stop Nvidia's BS, they can't, even if they wanted to, which they don't, because they know it doesn't work.

What's required is a mentality change from tech journalists, they have to stop being so stupid.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Right exactly, while at the same time people look to AMD to stop Nvidia's BS, they can't, even if they wanted to, which they don't, because they know it doesn't work.

What's required is a mentality change from tech journalists, they have to stop being so stupid.

Tech channels are businesses so most live or die on the access to major tech companies,especially the way ad revenue is clustered around launches. The few which are independently funded can push back more because they can afford to but still are reliant on the whims of the community. You see the same with game reviewers - the critical ones often get cut off or get very late review copies.Then get dunked on the very consumers they try to help.In the end consumers need to think a bit,and people can't be bothered. Just look at the wider world - people don't have the attention spans they used to anymore,especially with cheap credit. This is not the same hobby it was years ago.

 

[tommybhoy]

https://www.pcgamer.com/starfield-no-dlss-support-at-launch/

Apparently someone's went through the preload and can't find any DLSS or XESS life signs.

When you crash and burn on an outer rim hostile planet....

 

[humbug]

https://www.pcgamer.com/starfield-no-dlss-support-at-launch/

Apparently someone's went through the preload and can't find any DLSS or XESS life signs.

When you crash and burn on an outer rim hostile planet....

aww..... didums, Nvidia fans are going to have to make do with the little raw horsepower their 4060 class cards have.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

https://www.pcgamer.com/starfield-no-dlss-support-at-launch/

Apparently someone's went through the preload and can't find any DLSS or XESS life signs.

When you crash and burn on an outer rim hostile planet....

Let the wailing begin. Considering AMD is copying Nvidia in pricing tactics,if the game is any good and I can run it on 8GB of VRAM,I will just use FSR and not care.

 

[Phixsator]

It is rather comical that certain people have been begging AMD to adopt the Nvidia strategy of ..... over the competition in order to gain more money to then improve their offerings. We all know why though, its not to purchase from AMD or any competitor who would do this but a silly hope that Nvidia would be forced to slash prizes. Now that this may be the case, or not who knows, it's suddenly an issue. Pick your lane . I however, would much prefer that they all just offered some proper horsepower for a sensible price, yeah i know that is so 2016.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

It is rather comical that certain people have been begging AMD to adopt the Nvidia strategy of ..... over the competition in order to gain more money to then improve their offerings. We all know why though, its not to purchase from AMD or any competitor who would do this but a silly hope that Nvidia would be forced to slash prizes. Now that this may be the case, or not who knows, it's suddenly an issue. Pick your lane . I however, would much prefer that they all just offered some proper horsepower for a sensible price, yeah i know that is so 2016.

I still remember when the ATI 9000 series/X800 series ran HL2 better than the useless Nvidia FX series(which had rubbish DX9 performance),they started attacking Valve for sabotaging Nvidia cards apparently. Valve went with ATI because they could actually run DX9 properly,and the FX5000 series had issues and they had to make a patch for them to run it at lower settings.

I am still not understanding why FSR is sabotaging Nvidia cards?Because its sabotaging the AMD ones just as well. Many people said AMD should sponsor more games to get its tech into them,instead of complaining when Nvidia does the same and excludes AMD. But when AMD does it and excludes no one,its worse.

Maybe FSR3 will exclude RDNA2 cards? Expect that to be the next sore point(but I expect everyone is fine with DLSS3.0 not even running on an RTX3090TI).

Let's see if AMD actually releases FSR3.

 

[humbug]

It is rather comical that certain people have been begging AMD to adopt the Nvidia strategy of ..... over the competition in order to gain more money to then improve their offerings. We all know why though, its not to purchase from AMD or any competitor who would do this but a silly hope that Nvidia would be forced to slash prizes. Now that this may be the case, or not who knows, it's suddenly an issue. Pick your lane . I however, would much prefer that they all just offered some proper horsepower for a sensible price, yeah i know that is so 2016.

When you have tech jurnoes saying forcing AMD to allow DLSS in Starfield is good for everyone they obviously aren't talking about everyone, DLSS is exclusive to Nvidia, when they say "Good for everyone" they are pleading the "i'm doing this for you" case when they should know it only helps Nvidia justify their pricing.
If it wasn't Starfield, a Bethesda game, they wouldn't care, they care because not having DLSS in the latest Bethesda game makes their argument that AMD should be 30/40% cheaper that much more difficult if this trend continues. They are literally trying to bully AMD out of this idea of buying exclusivity rights, which Nvidia have been doing for decades.... they never cared.

I do want AMD GPU's to be cheaper, because i'm just as happy to buy AMD as i am Nvidia and i want that competition, AMD are the weaker company and so it is on them to attract more marketshare, having said that, if its not going to work at 10% less, or 20% less.... then its not going to work without AMD taking unacceptable financial hits.
You can't keep going demanding 30%, 40%, 50%..... and say "bUt tHey arE still mAking MonEy" It doesn't cost AMD any less than Nvidia to R&D a high end GPU and selling 10% as many at 60% the price is what did ATI in.

If we cannot be sensible, logical and reasonable about this then we are just making the situation worse, at some point we have to realise the strategy isn't working, the reason why tech jurnoes never give up on this flawed strategy is because they can't do it any other way, if they push back against Nvidia too much they find themselves off their sampling lists, and not just Nvidia themselves but also all their partners, and then they don't have a Youtube channel business anymore.

So i emplore AMD to ignore them completely because they are doing it entirely for their own self interests. AMD are doing the right thing by taking on the big meaningful sponsorships, we need a lot more of that.

We have yet to see what AMD brings in the mid range, but right now from my perspective its not AMD with the problem, if i was to buy something today to replace my $500 RXT 2070 Super with the amount of VRam one need's these days my options are:

RTX 4060 Ti 16GB: +25% performance.
RX 6800 XT: +64% performance.


Both around the same price and if the RX 7800/XT matches the RX 6800XT for around $500 they are doing alright in my book.

 

[no_1_dave]

aww..... didums, Nvidia fans are going to have to make do with the little raw horsepower their 4060 class cards have.

So i emplore AMD to ignore them completely because they are doing it entirely for their own self interests. AMD are doing the right thing by taking on the big meaningful sponsorships, we need a lot more of that.

People with Nvidia cards can still use FSR, it's just that it's garbage in comparison to DLSS and there is literally no reason not to include DLSS if FSR is included as they are implemented by the devs in the same way.

AMD are stopping the devs from implementing a function which can give better visuals/performance to a large percentage of the player base... I don't see how this is good practice that any gaming fan can be happy about. By supporting this you are supporting the very mindset which encourages brand exclusivity in the first place. I don't see Nvidia blocking devs from implementing FSR in Nvidia sponsored titles and if they did you'd probably be unhappy about it. But it's ok for AMD to use tactics like that, right?

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

People with Nvidia cards can still use FSR, it's just that it's garbage in comparison to DLSS and there is literally no reason not to include DLSS if FSR is included as they are implemented by the devs in the same way.

The main argument people used for using DLSS over native is something to the affect of you won’t notice it when playing the game. How many of the differences between DLSS and FSR do you think people would notice when playing a game?

What I would love for a YouTube channel to do is set up 3 computers, one running native, DLSS and FSR. Cap the frame rates to keep image quality as the main difference and then do a blind test and see what people prefer and if they notice a difference.

The only tech channel big enough to do such a test would be LTT but they are but busy at the moment.

 

[Nexus18]

People with Nvidia cards can still use FSR, it's just that it's garbage in comparison to DLSS and there is literally no reason not to include DLSS if FSR is included as they are implemented by the devs in the same way.

AMD are stopping the devs from implementing a function which can give better visuals/performance to a large percentage of the player base... I don't see how this is good practice that any gaming fan can be happy about. By supporting this you are supporting the very mindset which encourages brand exclusivity in the first place. I don't see Nvidia blocking devs from implementing FSR in Nvidia sponsored titles and if they did you'd probably be unhappy about it. But it's ok for AMD to use tactics like that, right?

Yup FSR is "free" yet anyone who actually cares for IQ will be turning it off anyway..... I rather sacrifice graphical settings than use fsr as the downgrade in IQ especially in motion is beyond bad with all that fizzling, shimmering/aliasing etc. But amd know what is best for the community, they're the white knights after all

Wouldn't worry though as someone will mod in dlss and probably nvidias frame generation and more than likely end up being better than the official implementation of FSR Funny to see them cutting out xess too though given that is open source (their reasons for not allowing nvidia stuff was always because it's not open source even they were called out on that with their streamline approach ) Essentially the only ones amd are harming here are themselves now, PR be doing overtime soon

 

[humbug]

People with Nvidia cards can still use FSR, it's just that it's garbage in comparison to DLSS and there is literally no reason not to include DLSS if FSR is included as they are implemented by the devs in the same way.

AMD are stopping the devs from implementing a function which can give better visuals/performance to a large percentage of the player base... I don't see how this is good practice that any gaming fan can be happy about. By supporting this you are supporting the very mindset which encourages brand exclusivity in the first place. I don't see Nvidia blocking devs from implementing FSR in Nvidia sponsored titles and if they did you'd probably be unhappy about it. But it's ok for AMD to use tactics like that, right?

I still don't see how AMD letting DLSS on their sponsorship game is good for everyone?

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

People with Nvidia cards can still use FSR, it's just that it's garbage in comparison to DLSS and there is literally no reason not to include DLSS if FSR is included as they are implemented by the devs in the same way.

AMD are stopping the devs from implementing a function which can give better visuals/performance to a large percentage of the player base... I don't see how this is good practice that any gaming fan can be happy about. By supporting this you are supporting the very mindset which encourages brand exclusivity in the first place. I don't see Nvidia blocking devs from implementing FSR in Nvidia sponsored titles and if they did you'd probably be unhappy about it. But it's ok for AMD to use tactics like that, right?

Who cares? There are more games with DLSS which don't have FSR,than vice-versa. Many games with DLSS,never have the FSR version updated.DLSS won't work on a GTX1660 which Nvidia still sells now. Epic Games makes TSR and Intel has fallback layers for XeSS. DLSS is the only upscaler which is locked out from other cards.

Nvidia for a long time blocked AMD/ATI users from using their own technologies even when they had 40% of the market. In the end as an RTX3060TI user,AMD isn't stopping me using FSR so it doesn't bother me. If they were blocking FSR and all upscaling from Nvidia users I would agree,but they are not.

I know friends with cards such as the GTX1660 and GTX1650 who are artificially locked out of using DLSS. The GTX1660,GTX1650 and GTX1060 are still some of the most popular cards on Steam.

So you should be asking is why Nvidia not allowing non-Nvidia users and lots of their own userbase to use DLSS? Why not have a fallback layer? If DLSS had a fallback layer,then devs might even use it on consoles. This sounds like Nvidia marketing getting annoyed they couldn't sponsor Starfield. People did the same with HL2,when they blamed Valve for the poor DX9 performance of the Nvidia FX in the game.

Its quite clear Nvidia is cutting back on game sponsorships now. Look at the amount of games AMD and Nvidia are now giving away with cards. This is why they sell trash like an RTX4060TI 8GB with useless giveaways. Selling cards with 12GB of VRAM for £800 when GDDR6 is 1/5th the price it was two years ago.

Maybe they should have thrown some more money at Bethesda Games Studios,like they did with Fallout 4,and then you would see DLSS. Seems more like they would rather use social media to force Bethesda Games Studio and AMD to do it for free,so they can bump up their margins and sell their junk RTX4060TI 8GB.

Plus if this game was Nvidia sponsored and only had DLSS3,no DLSS2 and no FSR,none of you would care if millions of gamers were locked out.

 

[Nexus18]

Who cares? There are more games with DLSS which don't have FSR,than vice-versa. Many games with DLSS,never have the FSR version updated.DLSS won't work on a GTX1660 which Nvidia still sells now. Epic Games makes TSR and Intel has fallback layers for XeSS. DLSS is the only upscaler which is locked out from other cards.

Nvidia for a long time blocked AMD/ATI users from using their own technologies even when they had 40% of the market. In the end as an RTX3060TI user,AMD isn't stopping me using FSR so it doesn't bother me. If they were blocking FSR and all upscaling from Nvidia users I would agree,but they are not.

I know friends with cards such as the GTX1660 and GTX1650 who are artificially locked out of using DLSS. The GTX1660,GTX1650 and GTX1060 are still some of the most popular cards on Steam.

So you should be asking is why Nvidia not allowing non-Nvidia users and lots of their own userbase to use DLSS? Why not have a fallback layer? If DLSS had a fallback layer,then devs might even use it on consoles. This sounds like Nvidia marketing getting annoyed they couldn't sponsor Starfield. People did the same with HL2,when they blamed Valve for the poor DX9 performance of the Nvidia FX in the game.

Its quite clear Nvidia is cutting back on game sponsorships now. Look at the amount of games AMD and Nvidia are no giving away with cards.

Maybe they should have thrown some more money at Bethesda,like they did with Fallout 4,and then you would see DLSS. Seems more like they would rather use social media to force Bethesda Games Studio and AMD to do it for free.

You can thank amds lack of giving a **** for pushing their tech for that..... What happened to the supposed wide adoption for fsr for console games?? We have what 2 now? Maybe 3?

Also, have a read on fsr github page of the closed/open issues, the issue with FSR is the method of compiling, hence why with dlss, you can just drop in the dlss file to update to newer/older versions. Maybe amd should take note rather than doing their usual over the fence approach and expecting devs to run with it and just "figure it out".

 

[no_1_dave]

I still don't see how AMD letting DLSS on their sponsorship game is good for everyone?

Supporting DLSS and XeSS gives everybody the choice to use whichever upscaling tech they prefer

So you should be asking is why Nvidia not allowing non-Nvidia users and lots of their own userbase to use DLSS? Why not have a fallback layer? If DLSS had a fallback layer,then devs might even use it on consoles.

Because DLSS uses tensor cores, it was developed with them in mind. Why should there be a fallback?
Asking for a fallback for a product which lacks the hardware is ridiculous... That's like saying a 1.6 ford focus should be able to 0-60 in under 5 seconds because a Ford Mustang can and they're from the same company

 

[humbug]

Supporting DLSS and XeSS gives everybody the choice to use whichever upscaling tech they prefer

Except any Intel or AMD owner, or any GTX owner. We are talking about DLSS.

 

[no_1_dave]

Except any Intel or AMD owner, or any GTX owner. We are talking about DLSS.

Obviously supporting FSR as well, I didn't feel I needed to mention that as it's already supported

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Supporting DLSS and XeSS gives everybody the choice to use whichever upscaling tech they prefer



Because DLSS uses tensor cores, it was developed with them in mind. Why should there be a fallback?
Asking for a fallback for a product which lacks the hardware is ridiculous... That's like saying a 1.6 ford focus should be able to 0-60 in under 5 seconds because a Ford Mustang can and they're from the same company

Epic's TSR doesn't use tensor cores. XeSS has a fallback layer that works on all cards so doesn't need those cores. FSR does the same too. FSR3,even if it uses RDNA3 features,will have a fallback too for RDNA2. So why did AMD and Intel make fallback layers and Nvidia didn't? Intel XeSS needs hardware support in the max tier.

Nvidia still sells the GTX1660 and GTX1650 series even now:

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 16 Series Graphics Card

Get 1.4X Power Efficiency Over Previous Generation for a Faster, Cooler, Quieter Gaming Experience.

www.nvidia.com

So you fully support Nvidia users being locked out of any DLSS usage. So basically your argument is that if you are poor Nvidia gamer you can clear off and a "better visuals/performance to a large percentage of the player base" is not really what you care about. All those non-FSR games which have DLSS are basically saying that.

You don't even need to buy a new card to use the AMD feature,and still some of you are moaning. God forbid if you needed an AMD card!

So I expect you were one of those people who bought an Nvidia FX for HL2,and made the same argument that Valve was "locking out" the majority of consumers from a decent DX9 HL2 experience. The indignity of AMD sponsoring Starfield is the same as when ATI got HL2. Also if you put DLSS in,don't you need to put the Nvidia logo in the game? I read that here.

Are we going to have a boycott now? Not even AMD users boycotted Cyberpunk 2077 despite their cards doing RT like crap in the game!

Except any Intel or AMD owner, or any GTX owner. We are talking about DLSS.

But DLSS is the upscaler of the people unless you are one of the undesirables. Yes,you GTX1660,GTX1650 and GTX1060 owners! The last two are in the top 3 on Steam.

Also AMD and Intel make cards? Never noticed.

 

[no_1_dave]

Epic's TSR doesn't use tensor cores. XeSS has a fallback layer that works on all cards so doesn't need those cores. FSR does the same too. FSR3,even if it uses RDNA3 features,will have a fallback too for RDNA2. So why did AMD and Intel make fallback layers and Nvidia didn't? Intel XeSS needs hardware support in the max tier.

Nvidia still sells the GTX1660 and GTX1650 series even now:

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 16 Series Graphics Card

Get 1.4X Power Efficiency Over Previous Generation for a Faster, Cooler, Quieter Gaming Experience.

www.nvidia.com

So you fully support Nvidia users being locked out of any DLSS usage. So basically your argument is that if you are poor Nvidia gamer you can clear off and a "better visuals/performance to a large percentage of the player base" is not really what you care about. All those non-FSR games which have DLSS are basically saying that.

You don't even need to buy a new card to use the AMD feature,and still some of you are moaning. God forbid if you needed an AMD card!

So I expect you were one of those people who bought an Nvidia FX for HL2,and made the same argument that Valve was "locking out" the majority of consumers from a decent DX9 HL2 experience. The indignity of AMD sponsoring Starfield is the same as when ATI got HL2.

Are we going to have a boycott now? Not even AMD users boycotted Cyberpunk 2077 despite their cards doing RT like crap in the game!

But DLSS is the upscaler of the people unless you are one of the undesirables. Yes,you GTX1660,GTX1650 and GTX1060 owners! The last two are in the top 3 on Steam.

Also AMD and Intel make cards? Never noticed.

I support people being locked out of a specific feature if that feature requires specific hardware. Nvidia developed the tensor cores, developed features that require and utilize them and charge more for them. If people are happy/willing to pay for those tensor cores and those features so be it. If people are not happy to then that is their choice, but they made that choice so they cannot moan when that means they're locked out of the features which require them.

Both Nvidia and AMD have locked people out of various tech in the past for no good reason as it was all software based and I've disagreed with it every single time. When either company does this it's bad for everyone. This time around whether you like it or not it's AMD doing it. They are blocking the devs from implementing software which would utilize the tensor cores on Nvidia cards.

I had a 9800 pro back in the HL2 days and DX9 ran sweet as a nut