AMD's FSR3 possibly next month ?

[Aretak]

As for when FSR's Fluid Motion, aka Frame Generation is coming - I see videocardz is reporting the ETA as between January and March 2024

That's for the driver-level frame generation. The game-specific implementation will be arriving next month.

It'll be fascinating to see what shape Fluid Motion Frames and FSR 3 are in once they arrive in Q1 2024 and September 2023 respectively. For its part, AMD has gotten together a good group of upcoming titles to ship with FSR 3 support, with the full list including Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora, Cyberpunk 2077, Space Marine 2, Frostpunk 2, The Alters, Squad, Starship Troopers: Extermination, Black Myth: Wukong, Crimson Desert and Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth - plus Immortals of Aveum and Forspoken, as mentioned earlier. That means plenty of proper hands-on testing opportunities to come, so stay tuned.

https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfo...-3-tech-and-frame-gen-for-every-dx11dx12-game

I don't know whether that means all the games listed will be implementing it next month, or if that's just when they'll start coming (actually it's definitely the latter, as some of them won't even be out yet in September). I'd assume that Cyberpunk 2077 will be adding it with the big update for the expansion.

 

[JediFragger]

Hopefully we'll get a base FSR improvement at the very least too, 2.2 has been out for a while.

 

[Nexus18]

Eurogamer has done a write up with way more details than we've heard so far. Some interesting bits:

* FSR3 with frame generation needs to have Vsync on, it doesn't work if you use VRR. Due the game demo's framerates not matching the screen's refresh rate, the demos shown by AMD today all had lots of screen tearing

* UI game huds are very stable

* FSR3 uses the GPUs Async Compute abilities so FSR3's performance depends on how much Async compute performance your GPU has. If your GPU isn't good at Async compute FSR3 May not actually boost framerate. FSR3's performance also varies between games because games that use Async themselves means that less resources are available for FSR3 to run, and games that don't use Async compute features will gain more performance from FSR3

* AMD is promising frame generation at the driver level in an update coming next year. This feature generates extra frames without using game motion vector data by interpolating one new frame based on the data from the previous and new frame - it's similar to how strobing works. AMD showed of Last of Us using this frame generation- DF noted that the image quality is significantly lower and more course compared to the two games that use motion vectors. So while this feature will allow users to boost performance in all DX11 and DX12 games, it does significantly lower image quality, where as games that have built FSR3 support provides motion vector data to the GPU and has much better image quality

* AMD was not very keen to discuss latency when DF asked about it; though now that we know FSR3 requires vsync to work, I can understand why because playing games with Vsync is going to have much higher latency than playing with VRR/Freesync/Gsync

AMD reveals long-awaited FSR 3 tech and frame gen for every DX11/DX12 game

DF goes 'eyes on' with FSR 3 - and a new AMD frame-gen solution that works with every DX11 and DX12 game.

www.eurogamer.net

And this is where even if it ends up being good with an official implementation, chances are uptake is going to be very slow and poor and probably questionable quality at best. AMD need to learn that their solutions have to be consistently good to win people over, no one in this day and age wants to wait months/years and they certainly don't want to get a more miss than hit experience, obviously will wait and see until it is out but I won't be surprised if most people end up not using this and instead just sacrifice graphical settings to hit a fps target.

Hopefully we'll get a base FSR improvement at the very least too, 2.2 has been out for a while.

Unless amd have made changes to how FSR works or done more custom tuning to provide a good out of the box configuration, doubt it, reading the github documentation and questions asked, it sounds like with FSR, it is very much on the developer to tune and get the best from it, hence why it is so hit and miss in games.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Hopefully game level implementation happens this year with Starfield, I'd love to see AMD and Nvidia become highly competitive with frame gen tech and see both really polish their game level implementations.

Bethesda was absent on the list of developers so probably no FG for starfield

 

[fs123]

I watched the video is slow motion (0.25X) but could not notice any major artifacts. Then paused it and incremented frame by frame using the <> keys and can definitely see that the FG is working since you can see the right side move through an extra frame while the left side just stays still. The generated frames are mainly the same as the original frame but was able to see some slight motion blur style artifacts in the characters arms which may or may not be due to the FG since the upscaling also can have it's own issues.

Did not see any obvious artifacting except in one frame where a random rock-like object was in the generated frame as shown in this shot. There is also some blur around the character which could be youtube compression:-

At normal speed it is near impossible to see any of these artifacts. Most people would be using FSR Quality mode so I expect the image quality to be much closer to native with a framerate of around 100fps. DF were impressed by what they saw and they are experts in this field. AMD seems to have achieve good FG performance with little artifacting. This is good news for all gpu owners especially if consoles can use it well. Will be interesting to see how well it performs in fast panning motion scenes.

 

[chris85oc]

FSR3 +FG looks nice. Hope they can pull it off. Most likely 7xxx owners will be the only ones getting a good enough experience latency wise . The rest… gl with that if you’re playing on a mouse.. controller might work.

However Fluid motion driver thingy is nothing more than a glorified TV motion smoothing option.

 

[Tinek]

Even DLSS3 FG artifacts and looks terrible when moving the camera around fast so I’d be surprised if AMDs version is any better.

I heard something about it switching off if user moves mouse (and by that camera) too quickly, exactly to stop excessive artifacting.

 

[fs123]

I heard something about it switching off if user moves mouse (and by that camera) too quickly, exactly to stop excessive artifacting.

Radeon Boost lowers resolution when mouse is moving aroung quickly so I expect this is using the exact same algorithm to disable or reduce the FG when there is rapid panning movements. That should be a good way to limit artifacting but not sure it will be a good thing to see fps dropping from over 150fps to 60fps when that algorithm kicks in. Maybe they will use Radeon Boost to lower the resolution at the same time?

 

[Tinek]

Radeon Boost lowers resolution when mouse is moving aroung quickly so I expect this is using the exact same algorithm to disable or reduce the FG when there is rapid panning movements. That should be a good way to limit artifacting but not sure it will be a good thing to see fps dropping from over 150fps to 60fps when that algorithm kicks in. Maybe they will use Radeon Boost to lower the resolution at the same time?

This will be interesting to test and see in practice, how much that really matter. It might be just edge cases.

 

[Grim5]

FSR3 +FG looks nice. Hope they can pull it off. Most likely 7xxx owners will be the only ones getting a good enough experience latency wise . The rest… gl with that if you’re playing on a mouse.. controller might work.

However Fluid motion driver thingy is nothing more than a glorified TV motion smoothing option.

Yeah so the driver version of fluid motion feature is a gimmick that most TVs can basically already do and there is a reason why no one really uses it - latency

Games with built in fsr3 is the real deal, but AMD needs to sort out the refresh rate issue, people don't want to play with Vsync...

 

[TheRealDeal]

Why does Vsync matter as in my understanding all it does is keep you in the HZ range of your Freesync/Gsync monitor like a frame limiter and makes no difference as essentially you are still getting the benefits of the VRR and not held back by Vsync. Back when these techs first came out it was recommended to have vsync on so you stayed in the correct range.

 

[humbug]

Why does Vsync matter as in my understanding all it does is keep you in the HZ range of your Freesync/Gsync monitor like a frame limiter and makes no difference as essentially you are still getting the benefits of the VRR and not held back by Vsync. Back when these techs first came out it was recommended to have vsync on so you stayed in the correct range.

Yeah i remember this, you had to run G-Sync with V-Sync on, now Nvidia just recommends you cap your frame rates to 1 or 2 below your screens max refresh rate.

Which everyone should be doing, like this in RivaTuner.

 

[Nexus18]

Why does Vsync matter as in my understanding all it does is keep you in the HZ range of your Freesync/Gsync monitor like a frame limiter and makes no difference as essentially you are still getting the benefits of the VRR and not held back by Vsync. Back when these techs first came out it was recommended to have vsync on so you stayed in the correct range.

Not 100% sure on amds freesync settings but vsync is recommended to be turned on in the nvidia control panel for gsync along with a fps limit 3-4 fps below your screen refresh rate so as to stop the traditional vsync kicking in, there is no latency associated this way, however, if you are hitting the refresh rate of your screen i.e. 144hz and exceeding fps here then you will get the latency hit from the traditional vsync method.

This is where all the main latency issues came from when dlss 3/FG was released as the fps was far exceeding the refresh rate of the display thus you weren't just getting the increased latency from frame generation but more so from vsync, only DF picked up on this, which meant all the others testing/reports were flawed:

One other thing which is required with frame generation on nvidia is that there should be no FPS limit when using frame generation along with reflex (apparently no fps limit should be set with reflex turned on even when not using frame generation), reflex acts as the fps limiter or so people are reporting on the likes of reddit anyway.....

 

[Dicehunter]

Yeah i remember this, you had to run G-Sync with V-Sync on, now Nvidia just recommends you cap your frame rates to 1 or 2 below your screens max refresh rate.

Which everyone should be doing, like this in RivaTuner.

Would the built in frame limiter in the Nvidia control panel work too or is RTSS the best option ?

 

[humbug]

Would the built in frame limiter in the Nvidia control panel work too or is RTSS the best option ?

Good point...
I'm guessing it should work in the Nv CP too, i just don't like it, i find setting it in RivaTuner more convenient, i also don't trust Nv drivers as much as i would like, they are finicky sometimes, for example at the moment i can't stream anything in Discord, just doesn't work, Shadowplay recording also just doesn't work anymore, this since i have been messing about with MS HDR profiles.
Like i said, finicky.

 

[Grim5]

Why does Vsync matter as in my understanding all it does is keep you in the HZ range of your Freesync/Gsync monitor like a frame limiter and makes no difference as essentially you are still getting the benefits of the VRR and not held back by Vsync. Back when these techs first came out it was recommended to have vsync on so you stayed in the correct range.

Cause if you toggle it on and off in games you can feel the extra latency when it's on and it sucks. Even using an Xbox controller you can feel the extra latency

I never use vsync because of that, I only use Gsync with a frame rate limit in the driver

 

[TheRealDeal]

Cause if you toggle it on and off in games you can feel the extra latency when it's on and it sucks. Even using an Xbox controller you can feel the extra latency

I never use vsync because of that, I only use Gsync with a frame rate limit in the driver

When was the last time you used AMD. Never noticed a difference from Vsync to frame limiter. Maybe you were just built different and have super fast reactions . In all honesty though Vega don't put out 240fps so i just leave my frames unlocked.

 

[SkeeterUK]

What about the enhanced sync option instead of vsync or freesync etc, would ES work with FG and help with latency somehow?

 

[tommybhoy]

Games with built in fsr3 is the real deal, but AMD needs to sort out the refresh rate issue, people don't want to play with Vsync...

Not as if DLSS 3 launched complete, hopefully AMD'll get it launched and put the effort in to keep improving it like NV keeps improving DLSS.


It's not as if DLSS3 doesn't have its issues either, for example, waypoint marker in Spiderman DLSS3 flickers all over the screen.

Let's wait and see how it performs, tbh I'm still absorbing DF were positive about it.

 

[Joxeon]

It's not as if DLSS3 doesn't have its issues either

I agree.