Another Example of Idiocy

[Meddling-Monk]

OK, I've looked at several other longer videos, but I don't know if they are the ones everyone else is talking about, but from what I can see on a quick glance from this longer video:

1. All the security (mostly males it appears) was on the other side of the room where the majority of the protestors were.
2. Several of the security had to stop blocking some of the protestors at various moments because of "innappropriate" blocking. (Arms/hands were over the breats of the female protestors) The protestors did not stop however, and this made it difficult to restrain the protestors in an appropriate manner in some cases.
3. The main protestor everyone is talking about (Mrs Baker, the one who was held by her neck), snuck around to the other side where no security was.
4. Under no difference was Mark Field doing anything that could have been done better given circumstance of incident other than letting a potential assault happen. He did not restrain the protestor any way largely different than the security on the other side of the room. Given the conviction of the protestor and lack of what they were wearing, the neck was the only "visible" option of here his other hand is (the other being on the protestors arm).

So given this other video, I still can't see how anyone believes that Mark Field could have restrained the female protestor any other way on their own on the spur of the moment.

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

Equality is giving women or ethnic minorities, varied physical abilities etc positions of employment, voices in society etc out with merit alone to better reflect all aspects of society, equal. It's not just as simple as treat everyone the same. Positive discrimination exists in the name and active pursuit of equality and to think as you seem to do is naive.
Man handling a woman as you would a man is far from equal, it's asserting power unequally.

No. It really is as simple as treating everyone the same. Its equality that is the goal here.
Positive discrimination is simply a tool being used until equality is reached when there is a deficit of equal opportunity.
It cannot be applied in this situation. This is not a lady trying to climb the corporate ladder in a male dominated industry. It's a protester attempting to cause trouble. Your attempt to pair up the two is simply avoiding the issue.
The goal of equality is just that, equality.

 

[AHarvey]

Man handling a woman as you would a man is far from equal, it's asserting power unequally.

You're not differentiating between handling and force. You could handle men and women exactly the same but the level of force used would be different,

Police handle men and women differently when arresting them, but again, the amount of force used would be different.

 

[singularity]

You're not differentiating between handling and force. You could handle men and women exactly the same but the level of force used would be different,

Police handle men and women differently when arresting them, but again, the amount of force used would be different.

Would it have been ok if a female minister had done it?

 

[Shocky-FM]

If it was a man he blocked and "man handled" away nobody would give crap, it may have even been praised by many.

But a Woman? Fire him.

Why do you think all the activists were Women? Hmm, mission accomplished.

Even security stayed well clear, in the words of Admiral Ackbar, it's a trap!

 

[AHarvey]

Would it have been ok if a female minister had done it?

That's the point, male or female it makes no difference on either side. equality is about treating everyone as human, ignoring all other traits.

but to answer your question directly, yes, it was ok for the male minister to have done it as well.

 

[singularity]

If it was a man he blocked and "man handled" away nobody would give crap, it may have even been praised by many.

But a Woman? Fire him.

Why do you think all the activists were Women? Hmm, mission accomplished.

Even security stayed well clear, in the words of Admiral Ackbar, it's a trap!

They weren't Asian women though, room for improvement

 

[singularity]

That's the point, male or female it makes no difference on either side. equality is about treating everyone as human, ignoring all other traits.

but to answer your question directly, yes, it was ok for the male minister to have done it as well.

In my mind it doesn't matter, I do feel he used too much force, I don't think he needed to and she would have left with little or no resistance,

 

[Meddling-Monk]

If it was a man he blocked and "man handled" away nobody would give crap, it may have even been praised by many.

But a Woman? Fire him.

Why do you think all the activists were Women? Hmm, mission accomplished.

Even security stayed well clear, in the words of Admiral Ackbar, it's a trap!

Actually, from one of the longer videos I saw, the security were all on the other side of the room blocking the primary group of protestors. But even they had to stop blocking the female protestors on a few occasions when their arms/hands were on the female protestors breasts (they largely needed to restort to passively blocking with their own bodies and leaving their arms out to avoid being raised as copping a feel or something), and in those video'd instances it was the female protestors throwing their weight around and getting the security into those situations. So it is pretty much as you described: It's a Trap!

 

[Meddling-Monk]

In my mind it doesn't matter, I do feel he used too much force, I don't think he needed to and she would have left with little or no resistance,

One, what you feel is what you feel. I won't deny that.

But you can't know this though (that they will leave without little to no resistance).

And we do have video evidence that Mrs Baker was VERY insistent on getting on through, even when Mark Field had already restrained her by her arm, resisted even more until she had been fully escorted away from the tables. So it would be highly unlikely what you are saying will be the case.

 

[AHarvey]

In my mind it doesn't matter, I do feel he used too much force, I don't think he needed to and she would have left with little or no resistance,

You may be right, but it's hard to judge, we can see what actions he used, but not what force was really used in them. As a male vs female you've also got to consider sexual assault accusations, "he grabbed my boobs" etc.

I know I would have done the same but it would have been my last resort. Talking always beats violence, but, violence can never be a taken from the table. I had to escort hammered drunk female squadies from a wedding once, I had to grab the arm of one but didn't have to use a lot of force. Thank god really because they'd have hammered me, one was twice my size

 

[GAC]

In my mind it doesn't matter, I do feel he used too much force, I don't think he needed to and she would have left with little or no resistance,

would she though ? she seemed more than happy to try and barge past him when he first grabbed her arm.

all il say is good job they didnt run in to hammonds ARMED security guys as they would possibly have drawn on them and been screaming to get down or get shot. god only knows how some people on here would be acting then.

 

[IronWarrior]

Not reading 15 pages.

After watching this, I don't think he should had touched her but I think he did use reasonable force, even if he grabbed her by the neck, she did try to resist at first but that was soon stopped when he held her by the neck.

That said, what was her intentions? Where was she going? Was the people at the end of the table to the left, high government sort of people? I don't know, was she intending to attack them? I doubt it, but who knows.

I don't know what she was trying to do, but I think he put a stop to it, if this was in America, what if she had a gun and was intending to shoot someone and he stopped her?

Ah well, he has killed his MP job, security should had done a better job.

 

[singularity]

Not reading 15 pages.

After watching this, I don't think he should had touched her but I think he did use reasonable force, even if he grabbed her by the neck, she did try to resist at first but that was soon stopped when he held her by the neck.

That said, what was her intentions? Where was she going? Was the people at the end of the table to the left, high government sort of people? I don't know, was she intending to attack them? I doubt it, but who knows.

I don't know what she was trying to do, but I think he put a stop to it, if this was in America, what if she had a gun and was intending to shoot someone and he stopped her?

Ah well, he has killed his MP job, security should had done a better job.

Nice summary, they were all out of order in one way or another.

 

[Meddling-Monk]

Ah well, he has killed his MP job, security should had done a better job.

Well, Security was doing their job. Because of the protestors being female only, it required near 2 security to effectively prevent and block progress of each female protestor through their bodies and not their arms/hands directly... On the OTHER side of the large dinning room. This sole protestor snuck around and was unknown what they would do. She had a mobile phone in one hand, a handbag large enough to have concealed items that could cause personal harm, and she was a person on a mission with their "won't back down" approach.

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

He will be fine. The furore will be over shortly, and he will be quietly shuffled back into work when another big news story is in full flow to stop people realising it has happened.

It's a slow news day, and this has allowed a really insignificant event to come to the forefront.

If anything his profile will likely be raised after this event.

 

[The_Abyss]

how did he not know what he was doing. i never seen anything wrong with what he did.

i don't know if you have ever seen a trained professional working in a nightclub. i've seen them superman spear people on the dancefloor and then throw them down stairs, etc. use their heads as battering rams through doors.

he did nothing wrong. yes he grabbed her and moved her forcefully. that is reasonable force to eject someone.

They sound like complete professionals.

 

[FlapR]

Don't understand the problem, she shouldn't have been there and was charging through to the stage. The situation was handled perfectly fine.

 

[AHarvey]

Not reading 15 pages.

After watching this, I don't think he should had touched her but I think he did use reasonable force, even if he grabbed her by the neck, she did try to resist at first but that was soon stopped when he held her by the neck.

That said, what was her intentions? Where was she going? Was the people at the end of the table to the left, high government sort of people? I don't know, was she intending to attack them? I doubt it, but who knows.

I don't know what she was trying to do, but I think he put a stop to it, if this was in America, what if she had a gun and was intending to shoot someone and he stopped her?

Ah well, he has killed his MP job, security should had done a better job.

Honestly, she was on a mission, you could tell in her walk, nothing was going to stop her and he stepped in when no one else was there too.

As you say, he stopped her and turned her around, used a shove to get her going and she still tried to turn back round which is when the hand was put on her neck.

And you're spot on with "what intention did she have", it's not like Greenpeace are known for always being peaceful in their protests.

It's been blown up by the media as always and it's a non-story in my book.

 

[Teh_Next]

Honestly, she was on a mission, you could tell in her walk, nothing was going to stop her and he stepped in when no one else was there too.

As you say, he stopped her and turned her around, used a shove to get her going and she still tried to turn back round which is when the hand was put on her neck.

And you're spot on with "what intention did she have", it's not like Greenpeace are known for always being peaceful in their protests.

It's been blown up by the media as always and it's a non-story in my book.

A non story that's worthy of comment? surely if it was that dull "a non story" you wouldn't comment.
It piqued your interest enough to comment....story.