Another Example of Idiocy

Soldato
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Which is what I said, thanks for confirming he is currently innocent until proven guilty in a court of law (which was my point) and therefore the court of "social media" from your "many people think what he did is unacceptable." means absolutely nothing. While you and many others may not like what he did, until he is prosecuted and form guilty then the current law of the land says he's innocent and, as he's not even been charged, questioned or otherwise then I'm not sure the likelihood of him being convicted is high either.

ERR... no, I said, it would up to the CPS to decide if he's prosecuted. They'll decide that on the balance of the likelihood of of conviction and the PUBLIC INTEREST. Not his, not hers. Not yours, not the Tory party's.

That's nothing to do with innocent or guilty.
 
Man of Honour
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My thoughts are that while he was a bit heavy handed, I think it's a stretch to call it assault when the 'protesters' were trespassing at a private event.

Just because it was a woman doesn't mean she couldn't have been armed with something, it's unlikely but in the heat of the moment you can't be sure.

If you start protesting and invading private events, you're bound to be manhandled a bit, and you can't really complain in this instance.
 
Soldato
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My thoughts are that while he was a bit heavy handed, I think it's a stretch to call it assault when the 'protesters' were trespassing at a private event.

Just because it was a woman doesn't mean she couldn't have been armed with something, it's unlikely but in the heat of the moment you can't be sure.

If you start protesting and invading private events, you're bound to be manhandled a bit, and you can't really complain in this instance.

Whilst I tend to agree, I think he went a bit further than heavy handed and the "instinctive" defence falls a bit flat when you see the full footage and realise how many minutes of fume he had one before he acted.
 
Soldato
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As a society we are completely doomed. China is going to take over the world while we in the West tie ourselves in ever tighter knots trying to second guess every action everyone ever takes to avoid offence. The world is not going to be made safer, fairer, or less environmentally porked by everyone whipping out their phones and broadcasting disruption on Instagram rather than taking action. I agree with Greenpeace on that at least.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baizuo
 
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the term is defined as referring to those who are hypocritically obsessed with political correctness in order to satisfy their own feeling of moral superiority motivated from an ignorant and arrogant Western-centric worldview who pity the rest of the world and think they are saviours

Except that's not what he said. Quite the opposite, he wasn't pitying China or anywhere else in the eastern/non first world, he was viewing them as a dominant force. Looks like you've misused the term.
Interesting one though, I'd never heard of it before and i'm glad you brought it to my attention.
 
Soldato
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the term is defined as referring to those who are hypocritically obsessed with political correctness in order to satisfy their own feeling of moral superiority motivated from an ignorant and arrogant Western-centric worldview who pity the rest of the world and think they are saviours

Except that's not what he said. Quite the opposite, he wasn't pitying China or anywhere else in the eastern/non first world, he was viewing them as a dominant force. Looks like you've misused the term.
Interesting one though, I'd never heard of it before and i'm glad you brought it to my attention.

Hilariously you have missed the fact I was supporting not opposing his argument. China have a slur for our perceived weakness.
 
Caporegime
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the female mp might have shown some common sense and not gone in like that to start with...

That makes no sense, the premise is an incident where it happens, an incident where it doesn’t happen an MP remains seated is irrelevant, I’m sure there were other MPs male and female for whom that was the case in this incident too.
 
Caporegime
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Whilst I tend to agree, I think he went a bit further than heavy handed and the "instinctive" defence falls a bit flat when you see the full footage and realise how many minutes of fume he had one before he acted.

Well you’d hope that security would handle it, given they weren’t in control and she was able to get closer to the speaker then why shouldn’t he step in. They’re already disruptive by being in the room and shouting, one of them heading towards the speaker gives the possibility of something else occurring, like some stunt where they humiliate/ruin the clothes of the politician in some way - like egging him etc...
 
Caporegime
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Honestly, she was on a mission, you could tell in her walk, nothing was going to stop her and he stepped in when no one else was there too.

As you say, he stopped her and turned her around, used a shove to get her going and she still tried to turn back round which is when the hand was put on her neck.

And you're spot on with "what intention did she have", it's not like Greenpeace are known for always being peaceful in their protests.

It's been blown up by the media as always and it's a non-story in my book.

Exactly, that video also shows the various attendees giving a round of applause as he ejects her. He doesn’t know what one of these climate protestors might do, like flu herself to the top table, spray some black ink to represent oil or something etc...

There have recently been minor attacks on politicians too recently using eggs, milkshakes etc...
 
Associate
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Am I missing something here?

If he's this great, noble defender of democracy protecting the chancellor from a knife or worse, a milkshake, then why didn't he stand in her way when she started to walk his way?

He waited until she was pretty much next to him before he got up to pin her to the pillar. If he'd wanted to remove her peacefully he'd have stood up and blocked her way long before she got near him then used the enclosed space to Shepard her back out.

Whether you agree with him getting involved is not the point, the point is that he chose the most aggressive and forceful way to deal with the situation and that's not a trait I want to see in any elected official.
 
Soldato
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Am I missing something here?

If he's this great, noble defender of democracy protecting the chancellor from a knife or worse, a milkshake, then why didn't he stand in her way when she started to walk his way?

He waited until she was pretty much next to him before he got up to pin her to the pillar. If he'd wanted to remove her peacefully he'd have stood up and blocked her way long before she got near him then used the enclosed space to Shepard her back out.

Whether you agree with him getting involved is not the point, the point is that he chose the most aggressive and forceful way to deal with the situation and that's not a trait I want to see in any elected official.

This. Why does he need to dig his fingers into her neck?

Absolute moron who did it simply because she was female. If that's a bloke he's legging it.
 
Associate
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Am I missing something here

You probably are.

We are missing what the thoughts and thinking process everyone has to make a 100% call on what happened. But since none of what a person thinks can be substantiated in any way, especially after the fact. We can only at be assume things.

Also, I don't have this info from a source, as I remember reading it in this very thread. That the female protestor was supposedly removed, but made her way around towards the area where Mark Field was. But the tables prevented her from being to progress further towards the Chancellor.

With security still on the other side attempting to block access towards the Chancellor (at a near 1.5/2 security to 1 protestor ratio), where most of the protestors were located at (in long video clip). This lone protestor made their way to somewhere they clearly shouldn't have. With no further way to progress towards the chancellor (she is seen looking around for a way around to them that didn't involved climbing onto tables and over guests), she hurridly (increased pace) made her way around the side (this is shown in most videos) where she encounters Mark Field.

During the filmed evidence, the protestor was seen to have been alone (no security targetting her) and moving around before Mark Field attempted to restrain her, was at least 6-8s alone where none of the guests would do anything to her, and no staff attempted to apprehend her either. But during that time, we can see her go from a more slow movement, to after finding the way around towards the Chancellor, being to increase her pace. Take what that means as you like.

If he's this great, noble defender of democracy protecting the chancellor from a knife or worse, a milkshake, then why didn't he stand in her way when she started to walk his way?

He waited until she was pretty much next to him before he got up to pin her to the pillar. If he'd wanted to remove her peacefully he'd have stood up and blocked her way long before she got near him then used the enclosed space to Shepard her back out.

Whether you agree with him getting involved is not the point, the point is that he chose the most aggressive and forceful way to deal with the situation and that's not a trait I want to see in any elected official.

I won't disagree that it was very last minute. But again, with no idea what any of them was thinking, we can't make any judgements on any of it. It would just be a lot of "What ifs", but not "impossible" outcomes. So we can only make judgements on what we do have: Video evidence.

And in the video evidence, we do see that it is through the struggle to not be restrained, that the protestor was forced back into the pillar/wall. Because of Mark Field attempting to stop her through grabbing her arm from moving past him, her attempt to escape his attempt to restrain her forces a still sitting Mark Fields into the need to extend his reach and to commit to a full attempt to stop the protestor. But this overextention of the arm will cause anyone still sitting to not have control of how much force they release, and the continuing resistance of the protestor to avoid being caught causes the crash into the pillar/wall. Mark Field did not "Throw" the protestor into the wall (you can watch the video yourself if you don't trust me).

At no point was Mark Field doing anything that if it was male/male, female/female, would it be classed as inappropriate. And even in this case of male/female, Mark Field at no point demonstrated any inappropriate touch towards the protestor that can be considered to be realistically avoidable (the female protestor swung her arms and body around a bit in the effort to escape, so any glanced touches cannot be expected to be classed as inappropriate, especially when the video clearly shows at no point was Mark Field attempting to touch anywhere for an extended period of time other than areas that would not constitute sexual molestation; all touches that were near sensitive areas were like the security, had his hand pull quickly away to prevent such a view).

Note, I am not saying that Mark Field didn't leave it till last moment, and there might be other factors involved that would certainly make them guilty as to what everyone is supposedly saying he is guilty of. But from the short clip (and the only long clip I can find so far), nothing inside those videos on examination shows someone who is being excessively violent or inappropriate towards a person. So to claim a person (Mark Field) is aggressive, was inappropriate, etc (or anything that also relies on feeling of the situation), is certainly not supported by the video evidence (that everyone is also pointing towards as their own evidence in support of their own view of the situation strangely).
 
Associate
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2 Sep 2013
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1,888
This. Why does he need to dig his fingers into her neck?

Er, is there a news article that shows this? Photos of his fingers that dug into her neck and left a mark or something perhaps?

Because if it's from the video that I'm describing, his fingers are seen as relatively straight, supposedly in an effort to keep her head forward. But suppoedly or not, it would be very hard to dig your fingers into someones neck from behind with fingers that straight and her neck not showing any signs of having anything impressed or indented into them.
 
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