Are earnings too low / living costs getting too high??

[balky12]

I wish I could have sat down with my 16 year old self and had a chat back then. I wonder how many of our colleges and 6th forms are actually being honest about it with our young people? I'm guessing none because their funding is all based on how many kids they can mislead into university whether it is the right thing for them or not.

When I was at college (10 years ago) I kindly informed my form tutor that I wouldn't be attending college one day, because it was 'University Day' or something like that. Where Universities would send in representatives and set up work shops, have lectures, etc. All to promote their Universities and it's courses.

He proceeded to tell me that I was being extremely silly and that I would amount to nothing in life it I didn't have a degree, as that was the way the world is going.

Fast forward 10 years and I am a home owner with a decently paying job enjoying a very respectable social life... (live in the South East, work in the City).

Having been in the industry I am now for all of those 10 years I have definitely seen recently a move away from employing graduates and grad schemes to employing college leavers and even school leavers...

I am defiantly not forcing my kids (when I have them) through University. I can see it's benefits for a whole number of careers, and personal development... however it is most certainly not the be all and end all. However if I feel they want to go because they have been told they need to go I will be sitting them down and explaining my experiences... happily balanced out with my partners experience. (1st in Law)

 

[krooton]

When I was at college (10 years ago) I kindly informed my form tutor that I wouldn't be attending college one day, because it was 'University Day' or something like that. Where Universities would send in representatives and set up work shops, have lectures, etc. All to promote their Universities and it's courses.

He proceeded to tell me that I was being extremely silly and that I would amount to nothing in life it I didn't have a degree, as that was the way the world is going.

Fast forward 10 years and I am a home owner with a decently paying job enjoying a very respectable social life... (live in the South East, work in the City).

Having been in the industry I am now for all of those 10 years I have definitely seen recently a move away from employing graduates and grad schemes to employing college leavers and even school leavers...

I am defiantly not forcing my kids (when I have them) through University. I can see it's benefits for a whole number of careers, and personal development... however it is most certainly not the be all and end all. However if I feel they want to go because they have been told they need to go I will be sitting them down and explaining my experiences... happily balanced out with my partners experience. (1st in Law)

Same, my education is essentially 6th-form (went to school in South Africa) plus a diploma in programming after that.

Never went to Uni, moved to the UK when I was 19, worked in a call centre, moved up to project management, got Prince2 qualified, moved to a marketing analyst role, and now earn a good wage doing work I enjoy and am good at.

Unless they want to be a lawyer/doctor, then no need for my kids to go to Uni.

 

[BuffetSlayer]

When I was at college (10 years ago) I kindly informed my form tutor that I wouldn't be attending college one day, because it was 'University Day' or something like that. Where Universities would send in representatives and set up work shops, have lectures, etc. All to promote their Universities and it's courses.

He proceeded to tell me that I was being extremely silly and that I would amount to nothing in life it I didn't have a degree, as that was the way the world is going.

Fast forward 10 years and I am a home owner with a decently paying job enjoying a very respectable social life... (live in the South East, work in the City).

Having been in the industry I am now for all of those 10 years I have definitely seen recently a move away from employing graduates and grad schemes to employing college leavers and even school leavers...

I am defiantly not forcing my kids (when I have them) through University. I can see it's benefits for a whole number of careers, and personal development... however it is most certainly not the be all and end all. However if I feel they want to go because they have been told they need to go I will be sitting them down and explaining my experiences... happily balanced out with my partners experience. (1st in Law)

Same, my education is essentially 6th-form (went to school in South Africa) plus a diploma in programming after that.

Never went to Uni, moved to the UK when I was 19, worked in a call centre, moved up to project management, got Prince2 qualified, moved to a marketing analyst role, and now earn a good wage doing work I enjoy and am good at.

Unless they want to be a lawyer/doctor, then no need for my kids to go to Uni.

In my case, I was in secondary school when Tony Blair's government came into power. I had similar experiences of being told I would never be much if I didn't have a degree and I was asked "do you want to spend your life cleaning toilets and doing menial jobs"?

My brother had gone to uni but when he went he had grants. He walked away with pretty much £0 debt. Myself and my parents believed the lies and so off I went to university.

Two years into my degree I walked away from it all and got a job in a ceramics factory. I loved that job. I worked my way up from a labourer to a caster and was doing OK. It was physical (dare I say it menial?) work but it felt honest and at the end of my shift I went home with no worries. I was happier than I had been in a long time. I wondered why such a job would be frowned on by schools? By 2001 I was earning almost £20k for factory work. I was 20 years old, had my own job and my own car. Four years later I had my own place, albeit rental and I was standing on my own two feet.

Anyway, some life incidents and choices later and I am now doing even better. I work Monday to Friday and I earn a fair wage and own a home. I'm in consultancy now, but every step of the way I have not looked back and I am so glad I left uni as I was really unhappy there. I have never been particularly acedemic. That is not to say I'm not smart enough but I always had to work hard to try and make it all click.

Over the last couple of months I have been doing house refurbishment and realised a couple of things. I enjoy the more hands on kind of work and I take great satisfaction in a job well done. I think this is a key reason why I enjoyed making things in the factory. I am just wired up to enjoy the phsical hands on stuff more than the text book stuff but I am fortunate in that I can do both.

The problem is, young people with similar traits are being rail roaded into what may well not suit them. We are creating this false ideology that hands on jobs, physical jobs and suchlike are beneath us and without a degree and a high flying job we can't be happy.

I'm fairly happy in my work now but whilst I earn a lot more than the factory, my head is always in work even if I am not. Reports to write, emails to sort, clients to contact etc etc. I look back at those days in the factory and just wish I could go back. Slave to the wage now though!! That said, I will be in a position in a couple of years time where I will be able to retrain so the world is my oyster, as it were

On a side note - I left uni with around £8k of student loan debt and a maxed out £1900 overdraft. The overdraft got sorted very quickly. But the student loan took over 10 years to repay with monthly payments ranging from £125 to £250 a month depending on my overtime (on the odd occasion it was £280). So this idea of student loans having 0 interest is complete rubbish. If I had known what I know now, I would have paid that debt back differently.

I really despair for these young people leaving with £30k+. Most won't ever pay it back, even if they are earning above the threshold.

 

[krooton]

It's bizarre that people look down on vocational or trade jobs, and then bawk at how much a plumber/sparky/etc charges them when they want to renovate their home

 

[Dicehunter]

From my own experience living in the UK is too expensive having lived and worked in other parts of Europe.
The standard of living is too low compared to what we now pay in England in terms of rent, Bills, Food, Drink etc...
When I lived and worked in Germany for a few years only a few years ago I was quite shocked as to how expensive England is when I came back here and how low the general quality of life is for normal working people.
The problems are the class system, The old boy network and having more bosses than workers, As long as you have these things in place England will always be behind Europe and it looks to just be getting worse and worse.

 

[Hellsmk2]

I graduated back in 2001 with 25k of debts. I can safely say that my degree has not opened a single door, and has in fact at some points, held me back ("Why did you read history if you now work in IT?"). The course itself was dreadful and pointless. I never knew a single tutors name, never had a single lecture or class that I felt was useful, never met a tutor who seemed to give a ***, and never felt challenged at all. I didn't even attend classes in my final year, and instead just did all of the essays at the start of the year and then turned up for the final exams - the uni never even chased up the non-attendance, even though a certain level was apparently compulsory. Still walked out with a worthless 2:1.

My brother on the other hand left uni after one year and went straight into work. A year later he bought a new build, and by the time I had finished, was making 35k a year (25 years old). Fifteen years later, he's on a 6 figure salary doing mightily well for himself. I'm slowly catching him back up in all areas, but I've had to pay off my student debts along the way, as well as entering the job market several years later. I would slap my younger self all around the house for ever being conned into thinking university would be useful.

I have two kids now and it pains me to think that they may one day go to university, especially as it now means debts of anywhere between 40k - 100k. They will immediately be at a disadvantage when they leave thanks to the combined efforts of Labour, the Lib Dems, and the Conservatives.

University is a huge con unless you study a STEM subject. Even then, you're taking a HUGE risk.

 

[Rroff]

As long as you have these things in place England will always be behind Europe and it looks to just be getting worse and worse.

Anecdotally it was strange at a work conference/exercise once with teams from all over the globe - for some it was their first longer term experience of the UK and the cost of living shocked a good few - but also I found it curious the different work ethics and approaches - to be frank the UK teams really didn't shine (though they weren't the worst but not far off).

 

[grudas]

I graduated back in 2001 with 25k of debts. I can safely say that my degree has not opened a single door, and has in fact at some points, held me back ("Why did you read history if you now work in IT?"). The course itself was dreadful and pointless. I never knew a single tutors name, never had a single lecture or class that I felt was useful, never met a tutor who seemed to give a ***, and never felt challenged at all. I didn't even attend classes in my final year, and instead just did all of the essays at the start of the year and then turned up for the final exams - the uni never even chased up the non-attendance, even though a certain level was apparently compulsory. Still walked out with a worthless 2:1.

My brother on the other hand left uni after one year and went straight into work. A year later he bought a new build, and by the time I had finished, was making 35k a year (25 years old). Fifteen years later, he's on a 6 figure salary doing mightily well for himself. I'm slowly catching him back up in all areas, but I've had to pay off my student debts along the way, as well as entering the job market several years later. I would slap my younger self all around the house for ever being conned into thinking university would be useful.

I have two kids now and it pains me to think that they may one day go to university, especially as it now means debts of anywhere between 40k - 100k. They will immediately be at a disadvantage when they leave thanks to the combined efforts of Labour, the Lib Dems, and the Conservatives.

University is a huge con unless you study a STEM subject. Even then, you're taking a HUGE risk.

agreed! I went with an apprenticeship after finishing college and I couldn't be happier with my choice. Uni is very over-ratted imo.

 

[Liefrich]

Surely all this is just anecdotal? I am pretty sure graduates earn more over their lifetime than non-graduates.

Also it massively depends on whether you attend a quality institution.

 

[MadMossy]

Pretty much the same as grudas although I left University early even though I was studying something that would likely have resulted in a decent job after (computer science) problem was I couldn't stand it, I hated learning and would rather spend my time doing, but 17 years later I wish I had at least stuck it out because now I struggle to find work that pays well and certainly can't find anything I know I would be good at because I didn't finish University. Still paying back my student loan now as my earnings have never been high enough to pay it off quickly.

 

[Dicehunter]

Anecdotally it was strange at a work conference/exercise once with teams from all over the globe - for some it was their first longer term experience of the UK and the cost of living shocked a good few - but also I found it curious the different work ethics and approaches - to be frank the UK teams really didn't shine (though they weren't the worst but not far off).

One of the things that shocked me coming back to England was not just what I mentioned above but the general lack of pride in ones work.
When I worked in Germany everyone did their job and did it well with their personal life being left at home, Here it's like "yeah whatever let's talk about who we pulled and then talk about football...." and it's kind of pathetic and embarrassing to witness.
I know I'm leaving England for good at the next chance I get, It will eventually get Dickens-like in this place.

 

[The_Abyss]

Surely all this is just anecdotal? I am pretty sure graduates earn more over their lifetime than non-graduates.

Also it massively depends on whether you attend a quality institution.

They do, but that's all historic data from before we decided it was a good idea for 50% of school leavers to go to university.

 

[grudas]

Surely all this is just anecdotal? I am pretty sure graduates earn more over their lifetime than non-graduates.

Also it massively depends on whether you attend a quality institution.

10 years ago maybe. Now days people pay more attention to experience. To put it in perspective I went from retail job to apprentice to mid weight in my role in 4 years with 0 debt and 40k/year pay. Soon moving to a new role with a very decent pay rise too.

 

[Buffman]

They do, but that's all historic data from before we decided it was a good idea for 50% of school leavers to go to university.

And they tend not to consider the cost of the fees (just salary is X% higher), which will be a bigger deal these days (previously was still evident they earn more as fees were so much lower).

As said before posting regarding going to uni or not is worth it is based totally on personal experiences and is anecdotal. For what it's worth I know people who've gone and got a significant step ahead in terms of salary jump, and those who haven't. I think most will agree it will be tougher to go to uni and get a salary/careerr jump if:

• You go to a poorly rated uni
• you get a poor degree (sub 2:1)
• you don't apply yourself well post degree (apply for lots of jobs etc..)
• you study a softer skill (eg non STEM)
• You're unwilling to travel for the right role /pay..

As discussed on many threads though, sometimes university isn't just for "I want to get a job that pays £x0,000+".

 

[Buffman]

A decent internship should be more like 24k

Where? Is this the case in many industries? (outside London)

Moved out with my pay at 15k to a two bed house in London.. it's doable.

When? ie was this recent? otherwise fair play..

 

[grudas]

When? ie was this recent? otherwise fair play..

2 years ago, rent has gone up by 200 or so/month in the area but I did okay, cycling to work to save money, shopping at lidl etc and very few nights out. Ended up saving around 100-150/month!

 

[Puzzled]

Thing is all the teachers told us that you had to get a degree as it will be the standard entry requirement for a decent job and that became a self fulfilling prophecy so that now the most basic grade jobs can be cut off to school leavers.

Vocational training should be seen as decent alternative and the idea of bringing in experts from different fields is a good one as it opens your eyes to new opportunities. I'm not saying this is the case for all but I know a few people who work in academia and they can have quite a narrow view of career pathways, still look at it in an old fashioned view of a job for life while realistically its going to be more and more about re-training and finding new opportunities at different stages of our lives.

A degree can certainly help with the above but it shouldn't be seen as the only option, problem is now that anyone who doesn't have a degree will have a hard time of getting past a lot of recruitment screening.

 

[Uther]

2 years ago, rent has gone up by 200 or so/month in the area but I did okay, cycling to work to save money, shopping at lidl etc and very few nights out. Ended up saving around 100-150/month!

Yeah but if you saved 100-150 month then but rent has gone up 200 a month now it wouldn't be so easy today for someone on 15k...
As for uni, totally agree. My sons friends are still at uni, with debts piling up, while he's been at work for over a year, over 10k in the bank, and just about to move up to a management role.
He is well established in a working environment, while they haven't even started their working lives yet, and are going to be graduating into a post brexit world.

 

[Buffman]

Yeah but if you saved 100-150 month then but rent has gone up 200 a month now it wouldn't be so easy today for someone on 15k...
As for uni, totally agree. My sons friends are still at uni, with debts piling up, while he's been at work for over a year, over 10k in the bank, and just about to move up to a management role.
He is well established in a working environment, while they haven't even started their working lives yet, and are going to be graduating into a post brexit world.

Still cheaper than I thought to be fair!

Again, pretty anecdotal. I started uni in 2009 just post recession and I'm sure might have been similar. Also you don't get "real world" experience but with a degree you can start the career ladder (generally) on a much higher rung (well, salary) pending vocation, also opens up other opportunities/breaks a glass ceiling in certain fields.

 

[Rroff]

image

Whelp putting what I was earning as a student many years ago into that for a UK calculator puts my buying power then about the same as someone on 26 grand today :s that seems kind of ****** to me albeit I was making some nice overtime rates.