Are earnings too low / living costs getting too high??

[grudas]

Yeah but if you saved 100-150 month then but rent has gone up 200 a month now it wouldn't be so easy today for someone on 15k...
As for uni, totally agree. My sons friends are still at uni, with debts piling up, while he's been at work for over a year, over 10k in the bank, and just about to move up to a management role.
He is well established in a working environment, while they haven't even started their working lives yet, and are going to be graduating into a post brexit world.

that was 200 total for the property, I would still have managed okay with 50 or so savings if I felt like it tbf! I can't say I struggled.

 

[dowie]

Surely all this is just anecdotal? I am pretty sure graduates earn more over their lifetime than non-graduates.

Also it massively depends on whether you attend a quality institution.

yup - if someone is unsure then good university + 2:1 or 1st + employable subject is probably the better option than not having a degree... in fact with the right subject some low ranked universities can be reasonable too

certainly based on past data graduates earn more than non graduates - there was of course the push to get more people into university which of course lead to the introduction of fees to sustain it all, unfortunately some of these extra places have been in dubious subjects at dubious universities - that might well close any gap between 'graduates' as a whole and none-graduates but shouldn't effect the prospects of people at good universities too much

Some professions are still open to you: you can train to be a Chartered Accountant without being a grad, it is a plausible but less common route - you can actually train to become an Actuary or Solicitor without a degree though I understand either of those routes if rather rare and still pretty tough regardless... you're still going to have to study for and pass professional exams and cover various material that people who've studied for relevant degrees covered.

 

[D.P.]

^^^, yeah you mustn't look at national averages for things like graduate pay, employment after 6 months, salary in 10 years etc.
Decent subject + uni + grade and you are in a very different world and the statistics are not at all comparable. When I graduated all of my friends ad jobs lined up well before exam week, those going in to the financial sector were getting their loans paid off or getting nice joining bonuses. Of the ones I keep in touch I guess we are all on 6 figures about a decade after graduating, unless they took a a different path in academia or charity.

 

[neviditelny]

A silly little question, but what is STEM-subjects?

 

[dowie]

A silly little question, but what is STEM-subjects?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science,_technology,_engineering,_and_mathematics

 

[neviditelny]

Ah that makes sense. And that is good subjects to read. And I've seen in many posts here people mentioning that Uni's isn't always the best way to go, which I really agree with. Specially not with the costs of them now. I've seen so many people going to uni and studied various things and I'm feeling "what will you do with that afterwards?" as there don't seem to be a big or wider career to make out of some subjects.
I'm working as a Health Care Assistant in NHS and have recently finished my Apprenticeship to be able to move up a Health Care Support Worker. I'm also thinking about applying to do a two year course to become a Band 4 and then I could (if they still would do it) a secondment to become a Registered Nurse which would be about 18 months.
But I'm also looking into other areas, where one would be to leave health care completely and go towards computing of some kind.

 

[BuffetSlayer]

I suppose the crux of it is measuring happiness as a byproduct of 'success'.

I wholly agree that those who study STEM subjects and apply themselves will more than likely have more opportunities and better career prospects overall. But not everyone can apply themselves in those kinds of subjects and many more wouldn't want to. Often, higher level roles bring higher level responsibilities and pressure than not everyone is cut out for.

Someone I know has always chased the wage. Always wanted senior roles and more money. Right now the two of us are on fairly equal footings in terms of what we have in life even though his earnings are more than 3 times what mine are. I have no doubt that in another 10-15 years he will be sitting prettier than I am and possibly earning 5-6 times more, but the main thing is I don't care because I know for a fact he won't be content. He will want more and won't be happy till he gets it. But when he gets it he will want even more and so the cycle continues.

I'm more of a plodder! I am mostly content and stress levels are low and that means a lot to me. The other thing to point out is that whilst this guy earns 3 times more than me, he never seems to have any money and even when I knew he did have money it got squandered so he needed to be earning MOAR!!! lol

But back to the OP - I have always felt it is a case of prioritising and people can achieve a lot on very little if they are prepared to forego luxuries / pleasures in life for a while. What I find particularly interesting is that people who go to uni and continue studying (short term pain for long term gain) are often the ones that seem unable to do the same thing with their finances and lifestyle once in employment. Thats a completely anecdotal and sweeping statement so I must clarify it is mostly people I know / have met personally that frame that reference.

 

[Ayahuasca]

He probably isn't chasing the money to find happiness, most people once they achieve a certain amount know that's not what makes them tick, it's the feeling of power and status that get them up in the morning. After all being at those levels get you access to a lot of things you simply wouldn't have or would struggle to get on an average salary. Fundamentally unless you're working for yourself on an important project for society (think Elon Musk, Bill Gates) most men will either be striving for that goal to better support a family or attract a woman way above what they'd be able to achieve on a standard salary. "Everything is about sex. Except sex. Sex is about power."

 

[malachi]

The way how things are the moment people will leave uni in debt and still dont know what direction to go in life and still expect an high paid job.

My younger brother went to uni, I told him go to uni because you WANT to and not for the sake of it, arse around and end up with some mickey mouse degree. He took my advice, picked computer science and now hes 21 about to finish his degree. We was talking last week and I mentioned all the upcoming technologies coming and he was clueless because all the uni information was outdated and he failed to keep up in current technologies. Apart from programming there was nothing much useful he took away. Thankfully hes not the sort of person who expects to get an high paid job straight away but told him now is the time to look around, research and see what he can do in the world of technology.

I didn't bother with uni because I had no reason to go. I worked hard, had some crappy jobs in my time but now at the age of 33, I am earning above most of my friends who went to uni in my current 2nd/3rd line job. Have my own house, car, traveled the world and not in any debt (apart from my mortgage). If I went to uni I still be living at home with a crappy paid job and student debts. I have always been self motivated, always kept looking for new opportunities but not only chasing the high wage but still reading about what's going on in IT and up coming technologies.

I have been at my current job for 7 years, pays well, get more time off than the average UK worker, have flexi time, can work from home. Sort of work people in IT would love to have but its time for me to move on. I am self studying doing Microsoft Certs, passed my first one (70-697) a few weeks ago after months of studying, as I never done a Microsoft exam before. So I can pack my bags and work in another country for a few years after I have done a few more certs in the next 2 years.

As someone said earlier in the thread, working in the UK compared to other countries isn't the best, financially and mentally. People live to work and not work to live, people signed off because of stress, high demand to work over their normal hours, if they don't then its frowned upon and not been paid for or rewarded for it. I understand not all organizations are like this, thankfully mine is not but people at my work choose to work till stupid o' clock at night and I don't understand why, who are they trying to impress, what are they trying to achieve?!?! Then I come to conclusion its basically the British way, like its programmed into people who were born here.

Regardless if you go to uni or not, you still have to be self motivated to get the higher paid job. Problem is most people get a degree, do nothing with it or build upon their degree and end up with a minimum/living wage job anyway for years because millions of others also have a degree and are in the same situation.

 

[dowie]

My younger brother went to uni, I told him go to uni because you WANT to and not for the sake of it, arse around and end up with some mickey mouse degree. He took my advice, picked computer science and now hes 21 about to finish his degree. We was talking last week and I mentioned all the upcoming technologies coming and he was clueless because all the uni information was outdated and he failed to keep up in current technologies. Apart from programming there was nothing much useful he took away. Thankfully hes not the sort of person who expects to get an high paid job straight away but told him now is the time to look around, research and see what he can do in the world of technology.

Out of interest what university and what areas do you think were lacking?

 

[krooton]

As someone said earlier in the thread, working in the UK compared to other countries isn't the best, financially and mentally. People live to work and not work to live, people signed off because of stress, high demand to work over their normal hours, if they don't then its frowned upon and not been paid for or rewarded for it. I understand not all organizations are like this, thankfully mine is not but people at my work choose to work till stupid o' clock at night and I don't understand why, who are they trying to impress, what are they trying to achieve?!?! Then I come to conclusion its basically the British way, like its programmed into people who were born here.

The US has the same kinda thing, I work for a global company and have lots of dealing with our US office. The UK office is a millions times nicer a place to work, the sheer ease of being sacked for any damn reason in the US would have me on constant edge.

 

[Rroff]

Out of interest what university and what areas do you think were lacking?

This is why I wish I'd continued on with an Electronics Engineering degree - it covers a lot of computing systems/fundamentals as well and doesn't as quickly become obsolete as some areas of computer science type degrees in relevancy.

 

[malachi]

Out of interest what university and what areas do you think were lacking?

He goes to Coventry uni, he asked me about upgrading his PC. I asked doesn't he know the latest PC specs etc. He said "nope" he found the hardware part of his course useless because it was legacy stuff no one uses anymore.

 

[Rroff]

He goes to Coventry uni, he asked me about upgrading his PC. I asked doesn't he know the latest PC specs etc. He said "nope" he found the hardware part of his course useless because it was legacy stuff no one uses anymore.

A degree like that should be preparing you on the fundamentals of the systems - giving you the insight to apply it to newer technology :| sadly this seems to be where many fall down as they are just doing it as a career without an indepth enthusiasm for the subject and ability to apply it outside of the narrow scope they've been specifically taught.

 

[mid_gen]

A degree like that should be preparing you on the fundamentals of the systems - giving you the insight to apply it to newer technology :| sadly this seems to be where many fall down as they are just doing it as a career without an indepth enthusiasm for the subject and ability to apply it outside of the narrow scope they've been specifically taught.

Exactly. Computer Science degrees teach you the fundamentals, they don't make you a good programmer in <language>. You have to do that yourself by putting things into practice. CompSci grads should have a solid understanding of Von Neumann architecture, data structures, algorithm analysis etc.....it's usually pretty easy to tell the 'professional' programmers that have and haven't studied these things apart.

 

[dowie]

He goes to Coventry uni, he asked me about upgrading his PC. I asked doesn't he know the latest PC specs etc. He said "nope" he found the hardware part of his course useless because it was legacy stuff no one uses anymore.

I think this specific issue might be more of an issue of your expectations of what computer science is rather than a poor course - that isn't to say the course isn't poor for some other reasons.

 

[dowie]

This is why I wish I'd continued on with an Electronics Engineering degree - it covers a lot of computing systems/fundamentals as well and doesn't as quickly become obsolete as some areas of computer science type degrees in relevancy.

I'm not sure computer science degrees necessarily do become obsolete quickly, personally I think a maths degree is better but I'm a bit biased there

Still a good computer science curriculum no doubt introduces functional programming, object orientated programming, computer architecture, data structures, algorithms, logic, discrete mathematics, databases etc.. etc..

It doesn't necessarily matter too much which languages are used to teach say functional programming or algorithms etc.. or what database is used as it is the concepts/theory that are more important.

I don't think there is too much in terms of core subjects at undergrad that is out of date from a curriculum taught a decade or two ago compared with today.

 

[ChrisD.]

95% of people I know who do well in IT didn't go to Uni. I don't think it brings anything to the party at all and I can tell candidates I'm interviewing if they're a Uni grad or not. There just seems to be something missing. True, there are the odd exception to the rule but it's few and far between.

I joined the Army straight from school and I think there's one person from my school year doing better than me because he took a gamble and did the Laaaaaandaaaan thing and it paid off.

Attitude to life and work is what the Army taught me, I'm an technical architect whatever that means and I have no decent qualifications at all.

 

[chroniclard]

I went to Uni for the craic. Was great fun. Wasn't hugely useful in getting a job but gave a reasonable understanding on the core concepts of IT (programming).

 

[mid_gen]

All the theoretical stuff I was taught is still 100% relevant. In my case the C++ and Java I used for the practical stuff is still what I'm working in day-to-day.

I guess if you end up in the wild west of whatever-the-latest-trendy-stupidly-named-Javascript-framework-and-it's-thousand-dependencies is it'll be less relevant