Arizona nine-year old in Uzi gun lesson accident

Squark · 27 Aug 2014 at 13:36

Munky1080 said:
30,000 deaths from guns is a tragedy, obviously. Actually, one death is a tragedy. I'm not saying there was nothing sad about that guy getting shot, but I don't see why we should change our entire way of life and culture due to a few unfortunate deaths.

Then again, I do love freedom.

Well, building safety regulations are there to prevent accidental deaths, but why should they have changed the rules if places were getting built just fine before?

Craterloads · 27 Aug 2014 at 13:39

Mental 32,000 deaths per year!

Al-Qaeda need not shoot at Americans just send them weapons and they will wipe themselves out.

Bennie-Mac · 27 Aug 2014 at 13:41

I think you are all forgetting that guns dont kill people, people kill people. Clearly that 9 year old girl was out for blood.

Tom0 · 27 Aug 2014 at 13:44

SimonTW said:
That may not be exactly how it happened, but it is true:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27399337/...ccidentally-kills-self-gun-show/#.U_3KDmNe-ZE

D.P. said:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/father-christopher-bizilj-died-firing-uzi-urged-son/story?id=12565132
there are graphic youtube videos if you want.

No ta, that's insane.

Atlas23 · 27 Aug 2014 at 13:45

Craterloads said:
Mental 32,000 deaths per year!

Al-Qaeda need not shoot at Americans just send them weapons and they will wipe themselves out.

An army of uzi-wielding 9 year olds

Rroff · 27 Aug 2014 at 13:45

Not from the incident in question (nothing graphic) but shows how utterly insane it is to give a 9 yro with little firearms experience a uzi...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSbc1bv5ReE

V-Spec · 27 Aug 2014 at 13:46

Bennie-Mac said:
I think you are all forgetting that guns dont kill people, people kill people.

I remember hearing that quote quite a lot in the aftermath of the Sandy Hook massacre, I always struggled with it because the situation seemed a bit more complicated, then Dr Rowan Williams came on the BBC Radio 4 in thought for the day and said something that really put it into perspective for me;

And there is one thing often said by defenders of the American gun laws that ought to make us think about wider questions. ‘It’s not guns that kill, it’s people.’ Well, yes, in a sense. But it makes a difference to people what weapons are at hand for them to use – and, even more, what happens to people in a climate where fear is rampant and the default response to frightening or unsettling situations or personal tensions is violence and the threat of violence. If all you have is a hammer, it’s sometimes said, everything looks like a nail. If all you have is a gun, everything looks like a target.

People use guns. But in a sense guns use people, too. When we have the technology for violence easily to hand, our choices are skewed and we are more vulnerable to being manipulated into violent action.

Yaayuh! · 27 Aug 2014 at 13:46

Educating kids on gun safety is important. However, giving 8 and 9 year olds Uzis... that's full retard, never go full retard.

pioneer2000 · 27 Aug 2014 at 13:47

Can someone explain to me why anybody actually needs to shoot a gun? Especially a child?

Nobody should have access to them except for the police/army. I'd even go as far to say that guns are not required for hunting.

glenimp617 · 27 Aug 2014 at 13:48

Burnsy2023 said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28948946

Am I think only one completely dumbfounded at the fact this even happened?

I have to be honest, it didn't really shock me

America and attitudes towards guns is like peanut butter on toast

glenimp617 · 27 Aug 2014 at 13:49

pioneer2000 said:
Can someone explain to me why anybody actually needs to shoot a gun? Especially a child?

Nobody should have access to them except for the police/army. I'd even go as far to say that guns are not required for hunting.

because the American law says they are allowed to

and because the law says they can, they do

Burnsy2023 · 27 Aug 2014 at 13:49

V-Spec said:
I remember hearing that quote quite a lot in the aftermath of the Sandy Hook massacre, I always struggled with it because the situation seemed a bit more complicated, then Dr Rowan Williams came on the BBC Radio 4 in thought for the day and said something that really put it into perspective for me;

You don't have to be religious to see that makes a lot of sense.

Baron C · 27 Aug 2014 at 13:50

Rroff said:
Wow... I don't have a problem with instructing children with firearms, etc. but in what existence does it make any sense to let a 9 year old loose, even under instruction, with an uzi semi or fully automatic :S

Even a pistol I'm not really a fan of unless the child has extensive experience and shows good discipline and awareness with firearms. Low calibre, single shot rifles and that kind of thing under instruction though is almost as safe as any other sports activity.

This...

Why on earth would they give a 9 year old an UZI?

I just said it outloud, and to hear it just hang there ...surrealism at its best.

Rroff · 27 Aug 2014 at 13:51

pioneer2000 said:
Can someone explain to me why anybody actually needs to shoot a gun? Especially a child?

Nobody should have access to them except for the police/army. I'd even go as far to say that guns are not required for hunting.

Its fun - though you might not understand it (or it might not be for you) unless you've put rounds down range and hit the target.

I'd happily own one without any thought or intention of using one in any other context.

Yaayuh! · 27 Aug 2014 at 13:53

pioneer2000 said:
Can someone explain to me why anybody actually needs to shoot a gun? Especially a child?

Nobody should have access to them except for the police/army. I'd even go as far to say that guns are not required for hunting.

Because they have a piece of old tatty coffee stained paper that says they can and because they can, so many own and need to learn to protect against others because if they don't then only the people that really shouldn't have them, will have them.

That sounded better in my head.

pioneer2000 · 27 Aug 2014 at 13:54

Rroff said:
Its fun - though you might not understand it (or it might not be for you) unless you've put rounds down range and hit the target.

I'd happily own one without any thought or intention of using one in any other context.

You'd hardly be missing out on something great in your life though. It's not a big deal to just never use a gun and in doing so you're avoiding all these unnecessary incidents. :confused:

Haggisman · 27 Aug 2014 at 13:55

pioneer2000 said:
Can someone explain to me why anybody actually needs to shoot a gun? Especially a child?

Nobody should have access to them except for the police/army. I'd even go as far to say that guns are not required for hunting.

Nothing wrong with some guns for sport, e.g. shotguns, bolt action rifles, etc.

However I don't see the need for any kind of automatic, or even semi-auto weapons, unless your intention is to kill people.

pioneer2000 said:
You'd hardly be missing out on something great in your life though. It's not a big deal to just never use a gun and in doing so you're avoiding all these unnecessary incidents.

You could say the same about a lot of sports though.

Don't go swimming/boating in case you drown.
Don't go cycling in case you crash/get hit by a car/ride off a cliff.
Don't go abseiling in case the rope breaks.
Etc.

Virtually everything inherently has some risk associated. That doesn't mean you stop doing anything, just that you take measures to mitigate the risk, e.g. learn to swim, wear a helmet, check your ropes, don't give a small child a fully loaded automatic weapon.

elrasho · 27 Aug 2014 at 13:57

stupid stupid stupid.. just soooo stupid! What purpose can letting a child shoot a gun at a range possibly give other than show them how dangerous guns can be in the wrong hand? What a shame, poor girls probably gonna need therapy and the family of the instructor will be distraught

Rroff · 27 Aug 2014 at 13:57

pioneer2000 said:
You'd hardly be missing out on something great in your life though. It's not a big deal to just never use a gun and in doing so you're avoiding all these unnecessary incidents.

By extension of your viewpoint we should also ban motor sports, many other kinds of sports with a danger element i.e. javelin throwing, rock climbing, etc. ?

EDIT: One of the biggest problem with the US and firearms is that they largely refuse to deal with the mental health side of the issue, partly due to the letter of the 2nd amendment, people are allowed guns that no one in their right mind would permit to often with foreseeable problems - other parts of the world have similar level of civilian firearm ownership with far less problems because they address these issues.

BuffetSlayer · 27 Aug 2014 at 13:59

Rroff said:
Its fun - though you might not understand it (or it might not be for you) unless you've put rounds down range and hit the target.

I'd happily own one without any thought or intention of using one in any other context.

Ah but therein lies the problem. Putting aside accidents for a second, if you have something that is part of your everyday life that has potential to cause massive harm, what do you reach for when you feel there is a threat or when you are afraid of something, or when you are angry and maybe not thinking straight?

Whilst most of us can happily say we would never use a gun for any other reason than target shooting, in the heat of the moment would that assertion ring true?

You only have to look at cases of killings in this country involving firearm licence holders to see how our best intentions are fallible.

The whole idea of gun ownership in the US seems to stem from fear, and I do not think that is a good starting point.