Assange to go!
- Thread starter Hitman_Leon
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![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
[TW]Fox;22588761 said:
Looks very similar to the material on this site
http://www.abacus-news.co.uk/news/10/wikileaksconspiracy6.php
which spends a lot of time on how Swedish sex crime laws are legislating on 'normal' adult behaviour because 'promiscuous women' change their mind a lot after sex in Sweden. A peculiar perspective.
I never said or implied that non consensual sex isn't an offence, in fact I believe I stated that the sex involved was consensual. I doubt the girls story's were made up however they have undoubtedly been twisted and perverted into allegations by the Swedish authority's.
[TW]Fox;22588761 said:
Like I said I have been following the Wikleaks stuff for quite a while and so read a lot of things before they were twisted and taken out of context via the media frenzy. If your referring to what I said about the girls story's being taken out of context then a lot of information was available about that back at the time, one of the girls even came out in support of Wikileaks after the "scandal" broke and said she never wanted any charges against Asange just for him to have the test, however due to all the attention she has now practically disappeared after taking a job as a foreign aid worker, in Palestine iirc.
Why would they bother to trump up charges? There would be little point if its just to get him to Sweden to then get him to the US..we have an extradition agreement with the US and have shown no previously reluctance to use it.
Ecuador has one too. They don't however have one with Sweden.
So what is Assange actually hiding from.
Soldato
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The "man". Something like that.
Soldato
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Thye haven't because we don't extradite if death is a potential sentence, and what he has been accused of would have that potential.
No point them applying while he is here.
Soldato
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Read again, potential death sentence, we will not extradite.
You can't see the difference between:
Bloke running Wikileaks highlighting how corrupt the US is being whisked off to the US
and
Sex offender on the run being whisked off to the US
Unless categorical assurance is given that he won't be executed.
Assange is the man!!! Our Government is a disgrace and a mongrel dog to the US FACT !!!
lol @ sex charges not for rape but for not using a condom, The women previously dropped these charges but sure enough got persuaded to pursue them again.
lol @ sex charges not for rape but for not using a condom, The women previously dropped these charges but sure enough got persuaded to pursue them again.
They would simply need to exclude that and its highly unlikely they would seek the death penalty in any case. All they would need to do was exclude it and we would happily hand him over.
There would be very little appetite to execute him for wikileaks..ridiculously bad PR. If they wanted him then convicting him (and that's not certain) and then banging him up for life would be all they were after.
Really..the idea they are going to seek the death penalty is pretty absurd.
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Yes I can, that's a pretty ludicrous thing to say
In this case however Assange would be deported from here and he appears far more worried about the sex case in Sweden..the place Ecuador has no agreement with.Yes I can, that's a pretty ludicrous thing to say
You asked for why they would trump up charges. I gave you one possible answer. How exactly is that ludicrous. If it is that obvious then why did you ask in the first place?
You asked for why they would trump up charges. I gave you one possible answer. How exactly is that ludicrous. If it is that obvious then why did you ask in the first place?
I didn't regard it as an answer, I regarded it as a slightly strange position / criticism of my ability to understand basic concepts. If that's the answer well I am afraid it doesn't account for anything in the conspiracy holding up, its fallacious.
There is no reason to trump up charges and people really are trying to have it both ways in this thread / in support of Assange.
On the one hand some people say the only reason he is alleged to have done something in Sweden is because a US conspiracy must be behind the case to get him there to get him to the USA. Then on the other they say the charges / allegations are so ludicrously shallow and unfounded they couldn't be grounds to send him to Sweden.
So its either a conspiracy from hell (about as well done as a magic trick where you make something disappear by putting it a box and getting someone to simply take the box off stage). Badly organised, badly conceived and leaving him in a country where the extradition position is just the same as it would be here, where the US still haven't said they want him for anything.
Or its just a guy who is wanted for a crime in a country trying to avoid going there by hooking up with a regime with a record on human rights worse than the one he claimed to be crusading against. Assange is, at the least, a hypocrite.
That's the bit nobody knows, If he were just a normal person none of this would ever have happened its only due to who he is that this has been taken so far. And one thing I forgot to note earlier was when Sweden issued a warrant for his arrest after him travelling to the UK he offered to visit the Swedish embassy so he could be re-questioned but they declined the offer, so it isn't like he didn't try to cooperate.
He shouldn't be treated differently to anyone else. If there were sex offence allegations against anyone else they wouldn't be asked to the Embassy for a quick chat. If he was a normal person he wouldn't expect to be treated like that. He does strike me as wanting everything his way. I think he over rates the support he has..he isn't Wikileaks.
There is no reason to trump up charges? And yet you agreed there was a big difference between what I posted. There is no reason to trump up charges to physically get him to the US - I fully agree with that - but there are plenty of good reasons to trump up charges to smear his name/tie up his time/undermine Wikileaks etc.
Try not to accuse people of making arguments based upon fallacies when you yourself are doing the same. And stop building the strawman whilst you are at it - if you had of bothered to read my stance on this I have quite categorically said I think he has charges to answer but those charges may have been instigated along by actions of the US government - they are not mutually exclusive like most people seem to assume. The charges don't specifically have to be about extradition do they that's what you are assuming there. Once the damage is done to his reputation then that process would be easier albeit not from a logistical point of view. no one will post bail for him etc less celebrity support, less popular pressure.
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I think there is considerable evidence in this thread and indeed more widely of people saying the charges are fake and then saying they are good enough to get him to Sweden, they cannot really be both. There are posts even on this page protesting the weakness of the charges..a put up job that sought either to undermine him or support his extradition couldn't be so wet.
I don't think it will damage the reputation of Wikileaks whatever he was accused of..people already made up their minds about it one way or another and views on it are incredibly polarised. If there was an attempt to smear him and that had the same value as getting him extradited, again the charges would hold more weight. I think even if the thing in Sweden had not come up people would hold the same view of him..I think he's actually done himself no favours with the association with Ecuador actually, that's surely got to have even people who believe in him a bit puzzled.
He spent a long time criticising the US and on some of the things that were leaked this was obviously founded (I think there is actually more bumpf and stuff no one wants to know or cares about in Wikileaks than anything that is worthwhile but some of it is).
But now he has associated himself with a regime you would have hoped he would protest against.
You have said he has charges to answer and I'd agree with that but I don't agree they are trumped up. I think the trouble with conspiracies like this is they require a complete leap of faith. And he has done more damage to his own reputation than the Swedes are doing.
That's kind of my point, no normal person would be treated like this which is why im starting to buy into the theory that the must be something larger at play.
Considering he isn't charged with anything at the moment I would consider accepting an offer for the Swedish authority's to question him at their embassy to be quite acceptable over going to all the trouble of an extradition process.
If he was a normal person then I doubt a high ranking prosecutor would have reopened the case and gone through it with a fine toothcomb to find anything that could be used against him just to try and form a case.
And this is where I really agree with you. Facing the charges and coming away innocent would make him look the victim which is not what normally happens normally no matter what the mud sticks.
If there was no US involvement and no consent: then it would be his word against theirs. In light of their subsequent messages - they find in his favour
If there was US involvement and no consent: then it would be his word against theirs. In light of their subsequent messages - they find in his favour
If there was no US involvement and consent: then it would be his word against theirs. In light of their subsequent messages - they find in his favour
If there was US involvement and consent: then it would be his word against theirs. In light of their subsequent messages - they find in his favour
No matter what he walks. At the moment he is running and looking guilty running at that. But as the outcome is pretty much guaranteed then I wondering why the Swedish authorities are pursuing it and he is running. Therefore, from that I read it as there was US involvement and no consent. Simplistic speculation but I like to speculate and I am pretty simple!
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