** ASUS DO IT AGAIN: IPS, 144Hz & FREESYNC!!! Asus MG279Q thread **

[Baddass]

I see less and less value in IPS, even though responsiveness and refresh rates are finally seeing some improvement ... colours have caught up on 8bit TN. You're effectively paying for higher viewing angles (moot mostly for gaming) and less colour shift. The IPS glow on cheap IPS is absolutely horrific (for me), though ...

Just wish we'd see more VA ... contrast is awesome, and potentially they're more responsive than IPS and don't have the glow issues, plus viewing angles / lack of colour shift is nearly as good.

Hopefully the 35" 144hz VA panel is the thin end of the wedge.

just to provide some conflicting thoughts on this....

saying colours are the same between an 8-bit TN Film and an IPS panel is not really correct. Colour depth (6-bit+FRC) hasn't really been an issue for many years, and i would challenge an average user to ever spot a difference in practice between a decent 6-bit+FRC panel and a true 8-bit panel. that's why there's so many 6-bit+FRC IPS panels around. the whole 8-bit TN Film thing is a gimmick. sure, useful they've done away with FRC for those very sensitive to it perhaps, but it's mostly a marketing selling point in my opinion.

there's far more to colour appearance and image quality than just how many orientations a pixel can make viewing angles are the main differences, but that's far more than just being able to use the screen relilably from a different viewing position. sure, that might come in to play if you were viewing from a distance, or had several viewers at once from different angles. but as many people say, for a single user does it really matter if you're viewing the screen head on most of the time anyway? the answer is yes, but not for the same reason. If you're doing any colour critical work, image editing etc on a TN Film panel even slight movements of your viewing position can lead to colour tone shift, contrast shift etc. even as you view from a perfectly central position and glance towards the edges of the screen you can see changes in colour/contrast/gamma. especially so on larger screens where there's a further distance to the edge. this is where the viewing angles of IPS come in to play as they are far wider and you don't get these kind of changes in image quality. Image stability is a term i like to use when talking about IPS vs TN Film.


VA is an interesting technology and yes, it offers very high contrast ratios and does not suffer from the same pale IPS glow as most IPS panels. however, it's far from perfect. VA is very hard to drive down to the same response times as TN Film (and recently IPS). Sharp managed to do a good job with their MVA panel used in the Eizo FG2421 but i've not seen any others that are that fast yet. hopefully with a 144Hz VA panel coming from AUO it will result in a big improvement though. they did wonders with their AHVA (IPS) panel so let's hope it's the same with that. nothing available yet though to suggest response times are as good as competing techs.

the main issue with VA though is still viewing angle related. you get an obvious contrast/gamma shift as you move your line of sight away from a central head on view. in fact it's the head on position that is the problem as some detail in dark content gets lost from that position. people refer to "black crush" when talking about that sometimes. it's only when you move slightly to the side that the detail is revealed. so again, it's not really great for image editing, colour work etc.

 

[NirK]

If you're not using VSync, then there will be tearing above 90fps. Whether or not you notice this is quite subjective. Some users (me, for example) notice this quite readily, although it is less pronounced at higher rather than lower frame rates. Motion Blur Reduction requires that you are laser-locked to a frame rate = refresh rate situation anyway, so isn't really practical for most users unless they're happy to knock back the graphics settings. For competitive gamers playing games like CS:GO it can make sense, but for your average gamer it's not a feature that really sees much use.

Is it possible to limit your FPS to 89 using software and never run into the problem of going over 90hz? I know it is possible to do this... But does it work all of the time?

Also between this Asus and the Dell 2515h... Which has the least offensive IPS glow and uniformity? I am not sure whether to splash the cash on the Asus or buy a Dell 2515h and wait for some sort of of 144hz 1440p 27" VA screen to come out at some point. I won't buy a TN due to the viewing angles and the AG coatings.

 

[PCM2]

Is it possible to limit your FPS to 89 using software and never run into the problem of going over 90hz? I know it is possible to do this... But does it work all of the time?

Also between this Asus and the Dell 2515h... Which has the least offensive IPS glow and uniformity? I am not sure whether to splash the cash on the Asus or buy a Dell 2515h and wait for some sort of of 144hz 1440p 27" VA screen to come out at some point. I won't buy a TN due to the viewing angles and the AG coatings.

I should have been a bit clearer in my initial response, but you actually get tearing when the frame rate departs from the refresh rate. Be it higher or lower. So limiting the frame rate will not necessarily eliminate tearing if the frame rate falls below that. If you have FreeSync enabled then of course that won't be an issue.

The uniformity varies between individual units and the data is too limited to say whether the U2515H or MG279Q would offer better uniformity in general (black uniformity I'd assume you're curious about). The glow should be a little less obvious on the U2515H simply as it has a smaller screen, but having not tested either screen in detail myself yet it's difficult to say.

 

[NirK]

I should have been a bit clearer in my initial response, but you actually get tearing when the frame rate departs from the refresh rate. Be it higher or lower. So limiting the frame rate will not necessarily eliminate tearing if the frame rate falls below that. If you have FreeSync enabled then of course that won't be an issue.

Yeh I meant limiting the frames to 89 when using freesync... so you are staying in the freesync window and avoiding Vsync lag or no vsync tearing... Don't know how that would work out...

Then if not using freesync your only option is to use the panel at 144hz, as anything else has too much input lag... So hopefully leaving the panel at 144hz and then using Vsync which would be at 72 / 48 / 36fps would work at least as well as normal Vsync on a 60hz monitor. Without any frame doubling or any other issues...

It is hard to know without testing the screen, I am hoping that if using the screen with an Nvidia card initially (so no freesync) I can leave the monitor at 144hz and enable normal Vsync so it would be 72 / 48 /36 fps without any problems eg. looking worse than normal Vsync at 60fps on a 60hz monitor. I read various reports of a) normal vsync looking better on a 144hz screen and b) looking worse... So it is almost impossible to know without testing it myself.

 

[pmc25]

just to provide some conflicting thoughts on this....

saying colours are the same between an 8-bit TN Film and an IPS panel is not really correct. Colour depth (6-bit+FRC) hasn't really been an issue for many years, and i would challenge an average user to ever spot a difference in practice between a decent 6-bit+FRC panel and a true 8-bit panel. that's why there's so many 6-bit+FRC IPS panels around. the whole 8-bit TN Film thing is a gimmick. sure, useful they've done away with FRC for those very sensitive to it perhaps, but it's mostly a marketing selling point in my opinion.

the main issue with VA though is still viewing angle related. you get an obvious contrast/gamma shift as you move your line of sight away from a central head on view. in fact it's the head on position that is the problem as some detail in dark content gets lost from that position. people refer to "black crush" when talking about that sometimes. it's only when you move slightly to the side that the detail is revealed. so again, it's not really great for image editing, colour work etc.

6bit+FRC wasn't available on gaming TN screens (or TN screens generally) until recently. There's a colossal difference between the old 120-144hz TN panels and the new ones with either 8bit or 6bit+FRC. The 8bit 144hz Viewsonic I currently have produces superior more natural colours and much higher contrast than the LG IPS monitor I bought previously for photo-editing. Both my XL2411T and XL2410T are a total joke when it comes to colours or image quality generally. They look dreadful next to both the Viewsonic and the IPS panel ... I just put up with them at the time, because I'm highly sensitive to refresh rate.

If you look at a lot of the high end TVs (almost all of which use VA of varying descriptions except OLED), they don't suffer from much gamma shift and generally have excellent viewing angle, whether they be older 1920x1080 or newer 4K ones. Then again the panels are fabulously expensive compared with those in VA desktop monitors ... save perhaps for Samsung 34" curved ones, which probably aren't too far off the cheaper VA TVs' panels. I'd love to see the latter in 120-144hz .. but Samsung for now seem completely disinterested in anything above 60hz, which I hope ends with availability of DP1.3. Bottom line is, I think VA has far more room to improve than IPS does.

 

[PCM2]

Just to add some thoughts here. There are some 6-bit + FRC TN models that look as good if not better than the PG278Q. Samsung's SA750 and SA950 series, when set up correctly, look superior in many respects. And more recent models such as the AOC G2460PG and Philips 272G5DYEB look quite comparable really. The BenQ XL2730Z does as well, set up correctly. Earlier BenQ models and the likes of the VG248QE look pretty dire regardless of how much 'setting up' you do, but that has nothing to do with their bit depth. The PG278Q looks quite rubbish if you get a duffer with 1.8-2.0 average gamma as well to be honest.

 

[Baddass]

6bit+FRC wasn't available on gaming TN screens (or TN screens generally) until recently. There's a colossal difference between the old 120-144hz TN panels and the new ones with either 8bit or 6bit+FRC. The 8bit 144hz Viewsonic I currently have produces superior more natural colours and much higher contrast than the LG IPS monitor I bought previously for photo-editing. Both my XL2411T and XL2410T are a total joke when it comes to colours or image quality generally. They look dreadful next to both the Viewsonic and the IPS panel ... I just put up with them at the time, because I'm highly sensitive to refresh rate.

If you look at a lot of the high end TVs (almost all of which use VA of varying descriptions except OLED), they don't suffer from much gamma shift and generally have excellent viewing angle, whether they be older 1920x1080 or newer 4K ones. Then again the panels are fabulously expensive compared with those in VA desktop monitors ... save perhaps for Samsung 34" curved ones, which probably aren't too far off the cheaper VA TVs' panels. I'd love to see the latter in 120-144hz .. but Samsung for now seem completely disinterested in anything above 60hz, which I hope ends with availability of DP1.3. Bottom line is, I think VA has far more room to improve than IPS does.

99% of all Tn film panels from the last 10 years have been 6-bit + FRC. That's been the method for a long time of delivering 16.7m colours on that technology. It's in no way a recent thing. There are a hand full of new TN panels which are true 8-bit. The differences you describe between all those monitors has nothing to do with bit depth though. The reason those BenQ screens look "bad" is because they are deliberately set up for gaming and so often have very low or high gamma and white points nowhere near the level you'd want for normal uses. Any panel can be set up like that if you wanted. You could make a top end IPS look just the same, or a set up a 6-bit+ FRC Tn film panel to look great with the right controls from the hardware of through graphics card profiling/calibration if you wanted.

A lot of Tv's are VA yes, but a lot are also IPS. The VA still suffer from the off centre contrast shift but much less of an issue on a TV you view from a couple of metres away, rarely view absolutely head on, and for which you don't need absolute accuracy anyway as you aren't doing colour critical work or image editing on it.

I like VA, it is good, but it's certainly not a clear winner in panel techs. I think they all have their place for certain uses and people...

 

[melmac]

PMC and Baddass, since it's become a bit of a talk about panel tech more than the Asus monitor, do you guys think the picture quality on the Ben Q freesync monitor is better than that on the Samsung S23700D?

 

[NirK]

So as with this monitor you are stuck with 144hz (because the input lag is high in all other modes)... Will that work alright with normal Vsync at 72 / 48 / 36 fps without any weird frame doubling or anything like that? Or would I be better just getting a 60hz IPS screen at half the price of this monitor (U2515H) and using that at 60hz with Vsync ?

 

[PCM2]

PMC and Baddass, since it's become a bit of a talk about panel tech more than the Asus monitor, do you guys think the picture quality on the Ben Q freesync monitor is better than that on the Samsung S23700D?

In some ways it is, in others it isn't. The 'Ultra Clear' (glossy) screen surface of the Samsung is a lot more forgiving than the medium matte surface of the BenQ when it comes to preserving image vibrancy. But the resolution of the BenQ and higher pixel density is a nice addition.

 

[melmac]

In some ways it is, in others it isn't. The 'Ultra Clear' (glossy) screen surface of the Samsung is a lot more forgiving than the medium matte surface of the BenQ when it comes to preserving image vibrancy. But the resolution of the BenQ and higher pixel density is a nice addition.

Thanks PCM2, as always very helpful

And sorry for calling you PMC

 

[theor14]

I See the monitor is now in stock finally

 

[Rexton]

Pretty hard to not order one after reading the review, probably going to wait until the end of the month to see if any other Freeview monitors are announced.

 

[theor14]

Pretty hard to not order one after reading the review, probably going to wait until the end of the month to see if any other Freeview monitors are announced.

Feel like I've been waiting an eternity for a decent freesync monitor to arrive after the announcement.

 

[Legend]

I've no experience with GSync/Freesync, so I'm not sure how much of an issue the limitation of 90Hz for Freesync funcitionality is on this screen. Will that be problematic? Am I right in saying the more powerful a system you have, the more likely it is to be an issue... i.e if you're running the screen above 90Hz on a very powerful system and getting super high frame rates, you will not get the benefits of Freesync... and therefore be disappointed? Whereas on a GSync monitor (which has a greater operating range), this isn't a problem?

 

[jigger]

I've no experience with GSync/Freesync, so I'm not sure how much of an issue the limitation of 90Hz for Freesync funcitionality is on this screen. Will that be problematic? Am I right in saying the more powerful a system you have, the more likely it is to be an issue... i.e if you're running the screen above 90Hz on a very powerful system and getting super high frame rates, you will not get the benefits of Freesync... and therefore be disappointed? Whereas on a GSync monitor (which has a greater operating range), this isn't a problem?

IMO 35-90 is an ideal range. Over 90 and the benefit will be very minimal, and I've never found sub 35 FPS gaming enjoyable even when locked at 85Hz.

 

[NirK]

So if you are NOT using freesync, but are using Vsync, with the screen set at 144hz (72, 48, 36)... How does that work out? Do you get frame doubling or any other problems? Or does it work normally using Vsync at 144hz (still an improvement over 60hz Vsync?)

 

[Vade]

My monitor arrived this morning and although it's beautiful and everything I wanted it's going to have to go back, I have a huge amount of bleed. Tried to watch a movie and in the dark scenes the bottom right corner is very distracting. And as Badass said in the review I don't think anyone could tolerate the sound quality from the speakers for an entire movie.

 

[jumeeno]

Quick one for @PCM2

I've had a Sammy S27A750D for 3 years now and have found it to be a superb monitor. However, I've been gearing up to buy a FreeSync screen for a few months now specifically a 1440p model. I've been awaiting reviews of the new Asus and am so far happy with what I've read.

Thing is, I've seen you reference the Sammy a few times now as 'still' being a cracking screen. I now have my doubts about rushing into new' technology and wondering if its worth waiting to see what else comes along in H2.

What do you reckon... aside from resolution and lack of adaptive sync, would you stick with my current screen?

 

[PCM2]

As a user of the S27A750D myself and with my personal preferences as they are, I have found a lot of 120Hz+ models released since to be disappointing due to their screen surfaces. The grainy matte screen surfaces used ubiquitously are a difficult pill to swallow if you're used to the purity and vibrant pop offered by the glossy Samsung.

The MG279Q is a bit different as it uses a nice smooth-looking matte surface, which is far removed from the grainy surfaces used on TN panel equivalents. When you throw FreeSync, resolution and the consistent richness of IPS into the mix then it's fair to say that the MG279Q has a lot to offer over your current monitor. I do think it would feel like a worthy upgrade.