Australian GP 2009 - Race 1/17 (NOT in HD BTW)

[utajoker]

tbh if hamilton and mclaren lied in their first meeting with the fia/stewards then they should be punished.

its a shame they did it just to get 1 extra point as hamilton did one of his best drives.

i dont see anything to argue about if he/they lied then he/they should be punished.

from what ive heard thats my opinion.

 

[Mr Jack]

McLaren didnt provide a full transcript of the radio and that is grounds for lying.. Why didnt the FIA/Stewards ask for the full transcript when they realised it wasnt complete? Because its easier to jump on McLaren and penalise them. It appears the actual incident is now rather clear, but the technicality of not providing a full transcript is the detail that the FIA have managed to jump on. Its BS.

Why is the transcript relevant anyway? Trulli says he repassed because Hamilton had slowed unreasonably, surely the only issue is whether the telemetry shows Hamilton had slowed unreasonably at that time. If he had, well, Trulli was right to pass him. If he hadn't, then he illegally overtook under the safety car.

 

[mmj_uk]

Trulli falls of track, loses 3rd to Hamilton.

Mclaren unsure on rules, so tell Hamilton to slow down and let trulli back past into 3rd.

Now, If at the Stewards hearing, Hamilton would have said "we were unsure on the rule, so we decided to surrender the place back to Trulli", Hamilton would have been awarded 4th, Trulli 3rd.

Instead - Mclaren advise Hamilton to lie about slowing down, misleading the stewards into believing that Trulli unfairly passed under safetly car rules. Trulli gets a 25 second penalty. Hamilton promoted to 3rd as a result.

Stewards get wind of the lie, DQ hamilton for providing misleading information and reinstate Trullis 3rd place.


Now, reading the above, can anyone honestly say that Mclaren/Hamilton did not deserve that DQ????

So why not just give them a heavy fine and tell them not to do it again instead of playing gods with the Championship standings all the time?

Hamilton earned 4th position, what happens off the track should stay off the track.

 

[Dutch Guy]

Hang on? How can "McLaren though the FIA had heard the radio convorsations" be classed as "McLaren deliberately lying to the FIA"? The stewards made a decision on incomplete evidence, then when they realised it and reviewed full evidence, rather than admit they made the wrong decision, they kick out McLaren for not telling them?!? Im sorry, but thats just retarded.

It looks like the FIA is telling us that they lied so they have 'evidence' to, yet again, strip McLaren of more points.

Maybe what is needed is a team that monitors the FIA, that way the stewards can monitor the drivers, the FIA can monitor the drivers, the new team can monitor the FIA and if all else fails ask a judge

 

[Type_R]

If you even REMOTELY begin to suggest you are a true F1 fan, it will only confirm that you truly are a clueless moron. You are one of the single most biased posters on this board when it comes to Formula 1, and and out and out Ferrari fanboy.

You're a ****ing hypocrit and I'm damn sure you know it.

Because clearly my friend (who has been on gardening leave for similar posts) you are very unbiased in your rationale.

BTW - If you want to see how much of a Ferrari fanboy I am you should read my other posts from the beginning of this thread, where I poured praise over The Messiah for his drive, your hero and role model in life

 

[Type_R]

Still not half as funny as KR's continuing one man attempt to take apart the GP tracks of the world, one barrier at a time

It is becoming rather comical to be fair, perhaps Alonso is slipping in some vodka in Kimis drinks bottle before the race, maybe sometime (soon) he will get back to driving on the track

 

[NathanE]

Hang on? How can "McLaren though the FIA had heard the radio convorsations" be classed as "McLaren deliberately lying to the FIA"? The stewards made a decision on incomplete evidence, then when they realised it and reviewed full evidence, rather than admit they made the wrong decision, they kick out McLaren for not telling them?!? Im sorry, but thats just retarded.

That pretty much sums it up and sets a dangerous precedent in the process...

 

[JUMPURS]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74152

Well someone is lying, either Hamilton or Whitmarsh.

"I was behind Trulli under the safety car, and clearly you're not allowed to overtake under the safety car. But he went off in the second to last corner, he went wide on the grass, I guess his tyres were cold. And I was forced to go by. I slowed down as much as I could. I was told to let him back past, but I mean... I don't know if that's the regulations, and if it isn't, then I should have really had third."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74137

Edit, maybe lying is the wrong word is wrong, but there is definately something suspect.

And according to this Hamilton was asked if he was told to slpw down and he said no. But we wont know unless transcripts of the stewards meeting are released.

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5133100,00.html

 

[machinauk]

So why not just give them a heavy fine and tell them not to do it again instead of playing gods with the Championship standings all the time?

Hamilton earned 4th position, what happens off the track should stay off the track.

Ok, do lets turn it on its head.

Hamilton takes 3rd, Trulli 4th - Trulli and Toyota mislead the stewards in order to get that 3rd place/Hamilton demoted - no doubt you would call foul by toyota for getting Hamilton penalised? or is this purely Hamilton/Mclaren fanboyism from everyone?

Regardless of whether they lied directly or failed to provided the full transcript (for whatever reason) your playing with fire.

But its a pointless arguement, unless we get to see the telemetry/listen to the audio then no one except Mclaren and the FIA know the truth, and neither will admit fault unless it is publicly proven.

 

[clv101]

A really poor show from Hamilton. It shows a lack of integrity, he'll lose respect for this incident that'll be very hard to repair.

 

[Peve]

Well someone is lying, either Hamilton or Whitmarsh.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74137

Edit, maybe lying is the wrong word is wrong, but there is definately something suspect.

And according to this Hamilton was asked if he was told to slpw down and he said no. But we wont know unless transcripts of the stewards meeting are released.

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5133100,00.html

"At that time, we did not know that Trulli was right off the circuit and Lewis was asked to give back the place to Trulli. That was a team view, having not seen it, and we thought it was the safest thing to do.

"I was behind Trulli under the safety car, and clearly you're not allowed to overtake under the safety car. But he went off in the second to last corner, he went wide on the grass, I guess his tyres were cold. And I was forced to go by. I slowed down as much as I could. I was told to let him back past, but I mean... I don't know if that's the regulations, and if it isn't, then I should have really had third.

 

[Duke]

Mclaren and Lewis lied to the stewards. Totally understandable penalty really. Mclaren need to stop leaving themselves open to receive such penalty's.

Was talking about the whole thing really. Changing the results the following day, then a few days later is annoying. Results need to be cleared up the same day imo.

 

[Dutch Guy]

A really poor show from Hamilton. It shows a lack of integrity, he'll lose respect for this incident that'll be very hard to repair.

Someone or something has lost respect (in my view) but is isn't Lewis or McLaren, but it starts with an F, ends with an A and I think there is an I somewhere in the middle.

 

[Ring Peace]

Well someone is lying, either Hamilton or Whitmarsh.



http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74137

Edit, maybe lying is the wrong word is wrong, but there is definately something suspect.

And according to this Hamilton was asked if he was told to slpw down and he said no. But we wont know unless transcripts of the stewards meeting are released.

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5133100,00.html

Perhaps you haven't read the article you are quoting but it says the exact same thing.

from article

"As we see it, what happened here is that during the closing stages of the Australian Grand Prix, under difficult conditions, there was a safety car incident whereby Jarno Trulli fell off the circuit and Lewis [Hamilton] could legitimately pass Trulli. I don't think that is in question," he explained.

"Once that had happened, of course, the team could not see it. Lewis informed the team that he had passed Trulli – and there was understandably concern within the team that he had passed Trulli under a safety car.

"At that time, we did not know that Trulli was right off the circuit and Lewis was asked to give back the place to Trulli. That was a team view, having not seen it, and we thought it was the safest thing to do.

"Once that instruction was given to Lewis, he did not agree. He said: ‘Look, the guy was off the circuit, I didn't need to do this.' A discussion was occurring and before that discussion was finished, Trulli had re-passed. If we look at the speed traces at that time, and compare it to other periods behind the safety car, then Lewis did not do anything abnormal. And I think it is also quite clear that Trulli should not have re-passed.

 

[JUMPURS]

Perhaps you haven't read the article you are quoting but it says the exact same thing.

from article

I did read the article but Lewis said he didn't know if that was right. He didn't say 'I was told to give the place back and i was arguing about it when Trulli just went past me'

But we will never know what was said in the room.

 

[Ring Peace]

Ok, do lets turn it on its head.
snip

Regardless of whether they lied directly or failed to provided the full transcript (for whatever reason) your playing with fire.

snip

Why should McLaren have to supply full transcript to a conversation between LH and his team which has been fully recorded and is available to the stewards and the FIA, surely you only request information from someone that you don't already have?

 

[Demon]

Honestly, I've never paid much credence to the while FIA debacle, but reading the subsequent Maclaren press statement, that if holds up to scrutiny (The FIA have the pit radio recordings/telemetry data to dis-prove), then I am now firmly with those that think the FIA have an absurb hidden agenda or level of incompetence that beggars belief.

 

[machinauk]

Why should McLaren have to supply full transcript to a conversation between LH and his team which has been fully recorded and is available to the stewards and the FIA, surely you only request information from someone that you don't already have?

Did the stewards have access to this at the time? or is it a case of they didnt have the transcripts (the FIA copy) at the time of the meeting and were running from mclarens info. then once they had the full data they've spotted the 'gaps' so to speak?

 

[Mr Jack]

Honestly, I've never paid much credence to the while FIA debacle, but reading the subsequent Maclaren press statement, that if holds up to scrutiny (The FIA have the pit radio recordings/telemetry data to dis-prove), then I am now firmly with those that think the FIA have an absurb hidden agenda or level of incompetence that beggars belief.

I'm not sure the FIA have a hidden agenda, I do think they have a real hate-on for McLaren after the Ferrari-McLaren "data exchange" fiasco and are very willing to jump on any little thing. And, in this case, there's also a wide perception that Trulli was unjustly treated.

Rare is the day that the FIA appear to get decisions right. Publishing transcripts of stewards discussions and meetings would really help, I think, along with a decent discussion and rationale for the decision.

 

[Mr Jack]

Did the stewards have access to this at the time? or is it a case of they didnt have the transcripts (the FIA copy) at the time of the meeting and were running from mclarens info. then once they had the full data they've spotted the 'gaps' so to speak?

If this is the case, then it's pure incompetence on their part. This was a post-race decision they should have taken the time to make it properly.