Australian GP 2009 - Race 1/17 (NOT in HD BTW)

dannyjo22 said:
"During the hearing, held approximately one hour after the end of the race, the Stewards and the Race Director questioned Lewis Hamilton and his Team Manager David Ryan specifically about whether there had been an instruction given to Hamilton to allow Trulli to overtake.

Both the driver and the Team Manager stated that no such instruction had been given. The Race Director specifically asked Hamilton whether he had consciously allowed Trulli to overtake. Hamilton insisted that he had not done so.

The new elements presented to the Stewards several days after the 2009 Australian Grand Prix which led to the reconvened Stewards Meeting clearly show that:

a. Immediately after the race and before Lewis Hamilton attended the Stewards Meeting he gave an interview to the Media where he clearly stated that the Team had told him to let Trulli pass.

b. Furthermore, the radio exchanges between the driver and the Team contain two explicit orders from the Team to let the Toyota pass."




I think it's clear cut as well and sends out a great message about lieing to the stewards. For once I applaud one of their decisions.
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Maybe they talked about letting Trulli retake the position but while they talked about it (first the team says let him past and later on said hold position) Trulli had already passed Hamilton and is that the confusion?
 
When you think about it they have got off lightly. BAR/Honda were supposed to have lied about the use of the fuel tank and got parked for two races after the event.
 
Ooooo clairvoyance! This bodes better for the FIA.

Hamilton and Ryan made a boo boo (if we take the FIA's word). Deserve the punishment, but cant shake the feeling that this situation is yet to be vindicated.

Still doesnt let the stewards off the hook who wernt available at the point of crisis, which would have avoided this. There should either be the capability to get clarification in short response time or allowances for teams when a decision cant be made quickly.

Frankly, I still think McLaren did the right thing on the track, and thats what it is about. Off the track, F1 remains a shambles...
 
machinauk said:
Trulli falls of track, loses 3rd to Hamilton.

Mclaren unsure on rules, so tell Hamilton to slow down and let trulli back past into 3rd.

Now, If at the Stewards hearing, Hamilton would have said "we were unsure on the rule, so we decided to surrender the place back to Trulli", Hamilton would have been awarded 4th, Trulli 3rd.

Instead - Mclaren advise Hamilton to lie about slowing down, misleading the stewards into believing that Trulli unfairly passed under safetly car rules. Trulli gets a 25 second penalty. Hamilton promoted to 3rd as a result.

Stewards get wind of the lie, DQ hamilton for providing misleading information and reinstate Trullis 3rd place.


Now, reading the above, can anyone honestly say that Mclaren/Hamilton did not deserve that DQ????
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Aha! gotcha.

Well if that is the case then yes they deserve the penalty. What I don't get is why lie and why try something underhand in order to gain 1 extra place - bit early in the season to play silly buggers IMO
 
This is disappointing. I always liked McLaren (and in particular Ron Dennis) because I thought they were always above-board, wanting to win on the track, and being all about the racing. (Spygate only increased my admiration, as it seems to me that was just a few bad apples).
This is an entirely different kettle of fish, though, showing an underhand, devious side to the team. How much was Ron involved on race day btw? Don't want to dump everything on Martin Whitmarsh, but it would help :)
 
dannyjo22 said:
Totally agree, but this is an event which will mean they will never be able to take his word and that of his teams during an investigation. Another rookie mclaren piece of advice.

If they had just shown the tape in the first place to show that they really didn't have a clue what they should have done and they were seeking advice then the 3rd and 4th places would just have been swapped.

By lieing they have done themselves out of some decent points.

Edit that 3rd place trophy has done more milage than the cars this week ;)
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I agree.. it's a dangerous game they played with a lot of risk that has backfired!.
 
dannyjo22 said:
I think it's clear cut as well and sends out a great message about lieing to the stewards. For once I applaud one of their decisions.
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I don't think its clear cut: "I let him pass" could mean "I slowed down and pulled over to allow him to pass" or it could mean "he went past and I didn't try to stop him". Only the telemetry data could tell us that.
 
Mr Jack said:
I don't think its clear cut: "I let him pass" could mean "I slowed down and pulled over to allow him to pass" or it could mean "he went past and I didn't try to stop him". Only the telemetry data could tell us that.
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Well the team definitely told Lewis to allow Trulli past:
Team: Lewis, you need to allow the Toyota through. Allow the Toyota through now.
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It gets a bit confusing then, cos Lewis then gets told to stay ahead having, apparently, already let him past. But still, the order was there.
 
OT I know, but Vampire - COUNT DUCKULA!!! I remember that show! God, that takes me back....
 
Masterdog said:
Well the team definitely told Lewis to allow Trulli past.
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And followed it up with an instruction to 'hold position'. I don't know what was asked or said in the steward's meeting but it strikes me as astonishingly unlikely that Hamilton/McLaren would have deliberately misled the stewards and but given a different story to the media. That's a level of dumb that seems extraordinary.
 
Mr Jack said:
I don't think its clear cut: "I let him pass" could mean "I slowed down and pulled over to allow him to pass" or it could mean "he went past and I didn't try to stop him". Only the telemetry data could tell us that.
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McLaren tinted glasses much??

IMO they are different.

'I let him pass' would mean he pulled over and slowed to let him go by

'The **** just ****ing overtook me' would mean Trulli gunned it past him.

Maybe it's just me.

But Trulli even said on the radio he had slowed down, i doubt he was thinking ahead to a stewards appeal.
 
Mr Jack said:
And followed it up with an instruction to 'hold position'. I don't know what was asked or said in the steward's meeting but it strikes me as astonishingly unlikely that Hamilton/McLaren would have deliberately misled the stewards and but given a different story to the media. That's a level of dumb that seems extraordinary.
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Well it is quite simple, at any point was Hamilton told to let the toyota past?

The answer is clearly yes, and if Hamilton and the other dude said no, then they are either liars or stupid.
 
JUMPURS said:
The answer is clearly yes, and if Hamilton and the other dude said no, then they are either liars or stupid.
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Or even stupid liars.

McLaren have made a habit of being incredibly stupid on occasion for the last few years. Hope they kick that habit soon, I want to see a proper attempt at a title defence from Hamilton.
 
JRS said:
OT I know, but Vampire - COUNT DUCKULA!!! I remember that show! God, that takes me back....
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i was tidying under our stairs just a few hours ago and found a count duckula video tape lol it looked ancient and had a button the front that makes music + flashing lights, i pushed it and the music still works :eek: the lights didnt flash though
 
Masterdog said:
This is an entirely different kettle of fish, though, showing an underhand, devious side to the team. How much was Ron involved on race day btw? Don't want to dump everything on Martin Whitmarsh, but it would help :)
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Yeah, unfortunately. :( It is as if McLaren think they are owed something for their Spygate fine and stuff or they are trying to get away with things better than they did with Spygate. Really disappointing if this is the course McLaren have decided to take in F1.
 
NathanE said:
Does increasingly sound like McLaren were trying their darndest to play it by the book but then the thought of getting 3rd place at the stewards meeting was just too much of a temptation...

I think LH and the "team manager" guy must have been told to keep schtum at the stewards hearing by his boss(es). Because there's no way he would be that dumb in the press interviews before it...

Still, I don't think it is reasonable for the FIA to assume that McLaren would be upfront with all details. It's not their responsability is it? McLaren clearly just went to that stewards meeting with a "answer only when spoken to" stance.
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Yeah this is what i took from the whole fiasco. In retrospect McLaren should have just taken 4th and not said anything, given how bad their car looks this year. I cant help but feel their "racing" mentality of trying to get a maximum out of every race, even if it involes playing the stewards, is going to cost them dearly.

On the plus, torro rosso look to be the main benificiaries of the FIA given their shocking first weekend and walking away with 3 times as many points as the race performance should deserve :D
 
Masterdog said:
This is an entirely different kettle of fish, though, showing an underhand, devious side to the team. How much was Ron involved on race day btw? Don't want to dump everything on Martin Whitmarsh, but it would help :)
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Yeah i don't think this would have happened if Ron had been at the helm tbh.
 
It's like getting sent to the headmaster then denying all knowledge despite it's all pretty damned obvious given the evidence.

This is pretty sad in a professional sport. Hamilton is in the wrong team. They're regiemes may suit him but he needs to be part of an outfit that understand when they were in the wrong and don't need to keep trying to save face for their own benefit.
 
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