Soldato
Bahrain Grand Prix 2013, Sakhir - Race 4/19
- Thread starter Duke
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Soldato
I would rather have ONE real overtake then 10 very fake ones. We all know the DRS is fake and the tires being to soft are fake.
So F1 racing now stands for Fake 1 racing.
edit=since Pirelli and sky have had a hand in Fake 1 viewing figures have gone down
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Soldato
It's a difficult balance to get right, it isn't close to being right at the moment. That said I can imagine a lot of viewers will prefer action on the track regardless of how it comes about and they want as many viewers as possible.
It's already been mentioned in this thread by deuse that he blew it in Texas with Hamilton, last weekend we saw a similar thing. Then there's Turkey 2010 when he collided with Webber…
Considering how little he does find himself under pressure his record isn't amazing.
In other news:
BBC Sport said:
Caporegime
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- 18 Oct 2002
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He has a point in that one real overtake is more interesting than a bunch of fake ones, but ultimately if people are just going around on their own, which is often what we see how anyway, its better to see them do it on their own and the cars limit.
Vettel didn't really overtake anyone, but it was more exciting watching him throw the car into every corner, slide around, hold the car in a slide and simple look fast on the track, than the other 15 odd drivers still in it who were limping around the track refusing to push the car.
20 guys never overtaking, but all pushing in every single corner, all looking on the limit, all making little mistakes, the better drivers holding them, the worse drivers having spins and issues.
While they are trying to portray the last couple races as "10 changes in lead" thats horse****, there is basically one change and one change alone, that was Alonso on Hamilton and that was done because his tyres had gone and DRS. Most of the changes in lead were leaders going into the pits, and an overtake while they are off the track, or that leader coming back through on a guy on a different tyre strategy, both who was 15-20seconds behind when he pitted and would be on much older tyres, who would then offer zero resistance when the faster car came back through.
Right now, today as the racing is, I'd prefer to see 20 guys on the limit and little to no overtaking, than no one remotely near the edge, crap overtaking, with commentators telling you that Alonso taking the lead back off the 10th fastest car, is an amazing overtake and makes the race unpredictable.
I mean think of it like this, the most interesting laps in the race weekends currently is the 2-3 guys realistically in contention at the end of Q3, really throwing their car over the corners, going balls out to get a pole. THat is the only "real" racing we see all weekend, and there is NO overtaking in this situation, its just watching drivers DRIVE, that is what races miss, now the fastest drivers are cruising around, with so little difficulty frankly, outside of the tyres going off. A driver who can put a car around in 1:34.5 is not going to be remotely challenged going around in 1:40-44's.
Its like anything in sport, it gets interesting when everyone is pushing their hardest, making mistakes, and doing things worse drivers can't do. THere is something very exciting and watchable about the fastest guys doing a qualy lap showing the very best they can do, a race where no one at all does this, is just not that good. As I said, Vettel banging in the laps was the most exciting part of the race because we had someone on the limit, showing speed. F1 without the speed... boring.
Vettel didn't really overtake anyone, but it was more exciting watching him throw the car into every corner, slide around, hold the car in a slide and simple look fast on the track, than the other 15 odd drivers still in it who were limping around the track refusing to push the car.
20 guys never overtaking, but all pushing in every single corner, all looking on the limit, all making little mistakes, the better drivers holding them, the worse drivers having spins and issues.
While they are trying to portray the last couple races as "10 changes in lead" thats horse****, there is basically one change and one change alone, that was Alonso on Hamilton and that was done because his tyres had gone and DRS. Most of the changes in lead were leaders going into the pits, and an overtake while they are off the track, or that leader coming back through on a guy on a different tyre strategy, both who was 15-20seconds behind when he pitted and would be on much older tyres, who would then offer zero resistance when the faster car came back through.
Right now, today as the racing is, I'd prefer to see 20 guys on the limit and little to no overtaking, than no one remotely near the edge, crap overtaking, with commentators telling you that Alonso taking the lead back off the 10th fastest car, is an amazing overtake and makes the race unpredictable.
I mean think of it like this, the most interesting laps in the race weekends currently is the 2-3 guys realistically in contention at the end of Q3, really throwing their car over the corners, going balls out to get a pole. THat is the only "real" racing we see all weekend, and there is NO overtaking in this situation, its just watching drivers DRIVE, that is what races miss, now the fastest drivers are cruising around, with so little difficulty frankly, outside of the tyres going off. A driver who can put a car around in 1:34.5 is not going to be remotely challenged going around in 1:40-44's.
Its like anything in sport, it gets interesting when everyone is pushing their hardest, making mistakes, and doing things worse drivers can't do. THere is something very exciting and watchable about the fastest guys doing a qualy lap showing the very best they can do, a race where no one at all does this, is just not that good. As I said, Vettel banging in the laps was the most exciting part of the race because we had someone on the limit, showing speed. F1 without the speed... boring.
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edit=since Pirelli and sky have had a hand in Fake 1 viewing figures have gone down
Your not very good with statistics, are you?
This wasn't the case. A couple of driver would have been pushing, the rest were all held up in a train behind slower cars they couldn't overtake.
Soldato
Here we go. But go on then lets see your facts.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/03/13/uk-f1-tv-viewing-figures-slumped-2012/
In 2011 F1 viewer figures rose.
In 2012 they fell, but only to a level that was still higher than any year from 2001 to 2009 inclusive.
And just because one thing happens and another thing happens, doesn't mean they are linked. Global temperatures are rising, while the number of pirates has fallen. That doesn't mean we can solve global warming by donning peg legs and 3 pointed hats.
Statistical analysis is far more in depth than the Daily Mail method of going "look, those numbers dropped, it must be because of <insert whatever you are trying to **** off here>"
In 2012 they fell, but only to a level that was still higher than any year from 2001 to 2009 inclusive.
And just because one thing happens and another thing happens, doesn't mean they are linked. Global temperatures are rising, while the number of pirates has fallen. That doesn't mean we can solve global warming by donning peg legs and 3 pointed hats.
Statistical analysis is far more in depth than the Daily Mail method of going "look, those numbers dropped, it must be because of <insert whatever you are trying to **** off here>"
Soldato
I'm out of this because it's teh same everytime all the sites say the figurs are falling and you say NO ect...it's sunny go out
Personally I'd rather 10 'fake' overtakes than 1
But I find the definition of fake flaky at best. Aero development could surely be considered fake. How can a tyre be fake?
Besides putting on really durable tyres and removing Drs, kers etc.. Then figures would indeed go down
But I find the definition of fake flaky at best. Aero development could surely be considered fake. How can a tyre be fake?
Besides putting on really durable tyres and removing Drs, kers etc.. Then figures would indeed go down
I'm out of this because it's teh same everytime all the sites say the figurs are falling and you say NO ect...it's sunny go out
When did I say the figures haven't fallen?
I'm not questioning the figures. I'm questioning your acusation that its the Pirelli tyres that caused it. The viewing figures dropping is a fact, the viewing figures dropping because of Pirelli, or Sky, or whatever, is just opinions created by people wishing to use the viewing figures as a tool to support their argument. There is no evidence to confirm the link between any one change and the drop in figures. It may well be the cause, but we don't know that.
We have seen rises and falls in viewer numbers of this same scale before, during times of TV rights and tyre rule stability, so what caused those?
The figures in isolation are just figures, you cannot assign causes to them without much deeper analysis. Analysis which none of the "omg Sky and Pirelli have ruined Formula 1" brigade have done.
For a guy who is part of the group on here who spend all their time asking people to "quote their sources" I'm surprised at your hast to draw links and assumptions where no evidence exists.
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I'm out of this because it's teh same everytime all the sites say the figurs are falling and you say NO ect...it's sunny go out
wasn't a certain person posting stats with nothing to back them up with last week?
I think some people come in here to purposely wind people up and get an argument going for the sake of having one. which is why I very rarely bother with this part of the forum anymore
Soldato
Still sunny around here yehhhhhh pity I'm bedridden
but I got the windows open so yuehhhh
Interesting little interview with Paul Hembery here:
http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1...mbery-Q-A-Formula-1-s-big-Pirelli-tyre-debate
http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1...mbery-Q-A-Formula-1-s-big-Pirelli-tyre-debate
Soldato
Morning.
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Downloaded, thanks
I wonder if the main reason many teams don't want them changed is because it means a lot of work trying to understand them again, rather than them actually liking the tyres?
Soldato
It's already been mentioned in this thread by deuse that he blew it in Texas with Hamilton, last weekend we saw a similar thing. Then there's Turkey 2010 when he collided with Webber…
Considering how little he does find himself under pressure his record isn't amazing.
In other news:
He does make a fair few mistakes, but still less than Lewis, and Schumacher (in his first career), he's probably on par with Alonso on the mistakes front. Kimi seems to make fewer. Than the others. Off the top of my head I can only think of lasts weeks GP with Perez, and driving in to the back of someone at Monaco. there was the flat spot that caused suspension failure, but we don't know if McLaren told him to stay out.
