Bakers refuse Gay wedding cake - update: Supreme Court rules in favour of Bakers

Any company has the right to refuse service of any customer. I dont see the
problem to be honest. I can refuse to repair a computer and have done on many occasions.

Different if you in the public service though NHS etc, but a private company can do as they like.
 
itchy said:
Any company has the right to refuse service of any customer. I dont see the
problem to be honest. I can refuse to repair a computer and have done on many occasions.

Different if you in the public service though NHS etc, but a private company can do as they like.
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Are you stating that as a matter of fact or opinion? As it's not a matter of fact. You are not lawfully allowed to refuse service for certain reasons e.g. based on race.
 
PMKeates said:
At one point in time racism was a tolerated point of view, today it's not. Discrimination based on sexuality is going through that transition today and these people are fundamentally on the 'losing' side, whether justified or not.
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Indeed.

History will look back at people in the article the same way it does for those who fought against equal rights for women & black people - as uncivilised barbaric simpletons.

CREATIVE!11 said:
Silly,

Big deal find another baker, they can choose to serve whoever they want. IT'S THEIR DAMNED BUSINESS!
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A business is a organisation within society bound by legislation, not a private kingdom unconnected to the law.

Nobody is forcing them to start a cake making business.
 
elmarko said:
What's the message about?.

Gay equality isn't a political stance, it's an ethical obligation to a civilised society.
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don't get me wrong - I support gay marriage... however it is still a political stance

Because equal rights for gay people cake is the same as a "we hate brown people" BNP cake. :rolleyes:
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Its a political group.... the bakers in the main story refused to print a cake supporting a moral/political view and containing a logo of a campaign group they don't agree with - the principle is the same.... and no the BNP's published policies say nothing about hating brown people - they're a legitimate political group whether we like it or not... my point is that someone shouldn't be forced to support political/moral views they're opposed to. This is rather different to simply refusing to serve someone at all on the basis of their sexuality etc...
 
dowie said:
and again they've not refused to bake cakes for gay people so it isn't that simple.... they've refused to bake a cake with a particular moral/political message they're opposed to

Should a Pakistani baker be able to refuse a BNP cake, a Romanian Baker a UKIP cake? A N.I. Catholic Baker an Orange Order cake?
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The first two can refuse as political parties are not covered by discrimination laws. The latter is somewhat more tricky but may or may not be covered. Though it would be a fairly brave/stupid Orangeman that tried it!
 
dowie said:
Its a political group.... the bakers in the main story refused to print a cake supporting a moral/political view and containing a logo of a campaign group they don't agree with - the principle is the same.... and no the BNP's published policies say nothing about hating brown people - they're a legitimate political group whether we like it or not... my point is that someone shouldn't be forced to support political/moral views they're opposed to. This is rather different to simply refusing to serve someone at all on the basis of their sexuality etc...
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There is some validity in that argument and it may be how the bakers avoid prosecution i.e. if it's seen to not be discriminating based on sexuality (illegal), but for a different reason.
 
elmarko said:
History will look back at people in the article the same way it does for those who fought against equal rights for women & black people - as uncivilised barbaric simpletons.
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maybe they will... but I'd still see a distinction even today between someone refusing to serve all women, all black people and someone refusing to print a feminist logo on a cake or say a picture of Malcolm X
 
dowie said:
Its a political group.... the bakers in the main story refused to print a cake supporting a moral/political view and containing a logo of a campaign group they don't agree with - the principle is the same.... and no the BNP's published policies say nothing about hating brown people - they're a legitimate political group whether we like it or not... my point is that someone shouldn't be forced to support political/moral views they're opposed to. This is rather different to simply refusing to serve someone at all on the basis of their sexuality etc...
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I fundamentally disagree that equal rights campaigning is a political argument. (But I can see some may think that way & it has some mileage)

Political action may be one of the tool used to achieve it, but it's a social, ethical & moral issue (equality). By that stance would it be acceptable to refuse a cake inscribed with "Equal rights for black people"?.
 
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RDM said:
The first two can refuse as political parties are not covered by discrimination laws.
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and that's my point in this instance.... they're refusing to support a moral position and a political/campaign group.... They're not refusing business on the basis of the customer being gay but the message that customer wants on the cake.
 
elmarko said:
I fundamentally disagree that equal rights campaigning is a political argument. (But I can see some may think that way & it has some mileage)

Political action may be one of the tool used to achieve it, but it's a social, ethical & moral issue (equality). By that stance would it be acceptable to refuse a cake inscribed with "Equal rights for black people"?.
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Would a campaign for multiple marriage, polygamy/polyandry and any other combination also be an equal rights issue or a political one?

As for equal rights for black people - that is somewhat broader and lacks the campaign group logo... but in principle you ought to be able to turn down any message you don't agree with. I doubt m(any) bakers would refuse such a cake... you could perhaps however find someone with an argument against say a 'black power' cake.
 
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PMKeates said:
Are you stating that as a matter of fact or opinion? As it's not a matter of fact. You are not lawfully allowed to refuse service for certain reasons e.g. based on race.
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You make a politically correct excuse of course! :rolleyes:

I refused a job once because the house I went to was rank as hell,
I just said nothing I can do, not you smelly clean up and get wash people
I am not doing it.
 
dowie said:
Would a campaign for multiple marriage, polygamy/polyandry and any other combination also be an equal rights issue or a political one?
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The difference is that this isn't a protected position unlike homosexuality.

The original refusal was due to it being for a gay wedding rather than the political message, the political message refusal seems to be inspired by their lawyer!
 
RDM said:
The difference is that this isn't a protected position unlike homosexuality.

The original refusal was due to it being for a gay wedding rather than the political message, the political message refusal seems to be inspired by their lawyer!
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so what... they're not refusing to serve homosexuals they're refusing to create something which they're opposed to.... if we go down that line then there are plenty of other silly examples such as the Muslim baker Jesus cake one which ostensibly should be covered by the same law.
 
dowie said:
believe it or not some gay people don't actually support gay marriage.
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Absolutely, two of my mates who are a couple do everything not to be gay if that makes sense. They don't support gay church marriages because it was forced onto the churches. I 100% know they would support the bakery because they supported the hotel owners.
 
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