A heterosexual could order a wedding cake, a homosexual could not order a wedding cake. That is fundamentally discriminating due to sexuality. Much like I couldn't run a guest house and only let black guests book the attic room.
Bakers refuse Gay wedding cake - update: Supreme Court rules in favour of Bakers
- Thread starter dowie
- Start date
A heterosexual could order a wedding cake, a homosexual could not order a wedding cake. That is fundamentally discriminating due to sexuality. Much like I couldn't run a guest house and only let black guests book the attic room.
Gay marriages haven't been forced on to churches. They have a specific exception to the law. They can choose to allow it, other than Anglican churches which cannot choose to allow it.
A heterosexual could order a wedding cake for their gay friend's wedding with the same message on and be refused service.
A homosexual could order a wedding cake sans message and be provided with one.
The message on the cake is the issue not the sexuality of the person placing the order. The issue is refusing to supply a cake with a message they disagree with on it... I think they have that right.
Soldato
Let's take this a step further;
In a world were Christians are barred from marriage, a Christian couple enter a Muslim-run bakers and request a cake with Miss Piggy And Kermit and a "Christian Marriage" message with a Christian lobby group's logo. Would it be acceptable for the baker to refuse?
So as long as I let black guests book the other rooms for white people and let white guests book the attic for black people I am not discriminating?
no you'd be discriminating
again they're not refusing to serve gay people they're refusing to create something with a specific message on it they don't agree with
see the Muslim baker Jesus cake example again... is the Muslim baker discriminating against the Christian customer if he refuses the order? Is he discriminating against his Muslim employee if he accepts the order and makes his employee create a cake with an image of a prophet on it - something that goes against his employee's beliefs....
Last edited:
I wish the bakers luck on this one. For them its a matter of principle and conscience and I support their right to have their Christain beliefs respected. After all, if they were Muslim or Jewish would you force them to sell things that went against their beliefs?
I'm sure there's no shortage of other bakers the purchasers could go to. How do you know they're not deliberating targeting this Bakery for self-gain.
I'm sure there's no shortage of other bakers the purchasers could go to. How do you know they're not deliberating targeting this Bakery for self-gain.
Soldato
I wonder if the people suporting the bakers also supported Subway in that halal-bashing thread we had...
I suspect not. Even though that was just the equal-handed right to a bacon sandwich, whereas this is the right to equal access to marriage
I suspect not. Even though that was just the equal-handed right to a bacon sandwich, whereas this is the right to equal access to marriage
The law unfortunately does not offer a legal right to bacon, which obviously it should!
Man of Honour
I did, there's still 1500 other Subways I can go to if I want bacon but to be honest I've never bought anything bacon from Subway.
This was effectively your argument as to why the bakers weren't discriminating though?
nope... the bakers refused to write a particular message on a cake... they refuse to write other messages on cakes... they ought to have some discretion in that area. They didn't however decide to only serve second class cakes to gay people...
Soldato
Is a black man joke only racist if a black man hears it?
They didn't refuse to serve because the applicants were gay, but they still refused for the reason that they discriminate against gays.
Again, the message excuse seems to be a relatively new reason for refusal, arrived at after consultation with a lawyer. Effectively they are offering a lesser service to gay people, I.e. Not wedding cakes.
Soldato
- Joined
- 8 Mar 2007
- Posts
- 10,938
Yes, if it breached discrimination legislation.
not they're not - they haven't refused to sell a wedding cake, they've refused to sell a wedding cake with a particular message on it
there is no indication that the customer in question couldn't have otherwise gone into the store and been able to buy any cake anyone else could buy
What if a group, for the lulz, orders a cake with a multitude of offensive messages? Like "white people burn in hell" and "the pope takes it up the ***" etc, etc. I guess that would be OK to refuse under hate speech laws, probably.
OK, now what if a satanic cult orders a cake with something that would offend most (all) religious people? What if just by making that cake the chef would feel really bad? What about a cake promoting paedophilia? Or Jihad? LOL, a Jihad cake, delicious.
For Pete's sake, you have to draw the line somewhere. A business should be allowed to trade under their own terms and conditions. It's not like that's the only cake shop they can order from. I'm sure there must be confectionery shops with gay owners, or a gay chef..
Missed the first part of my post or just ignoring it?
So it's not discrimination if you let gays only order heterosexual wedding cakes?
You've been going to the wrong nightclubs pal