Beheading at Notre-Dame basilica in Nice

[deuse]

Oh, that's dreadful. You'd end up with a full-on religious war.

How many have to die till YOU will act?
And what would you do?

 

[rare]

His next tweet somewhat gave some more context... He was using the eye-for-an-eye argument, and went on to say that Muslims aren't doing that. Which they aren't.

He said they ‘have a right’ to kill millions of innocent French. As if they have the moral high ground.

 

[Lysander]

How many have to die till YOU will act?
And what would you do?

You're sounding a bit like one of the right-wing nuts in the US who end up grabbing a gun and going postal.

I've already said I have no idea what the solution is. Sorry.

 

[deuse]

You're sounding a bit like one of the right-wing nuts in the US who end up grabbing a gun and going postal.

I've already said I have no idea what the solution is. Sorry.

So don't knock down anyone's idea till you have one.

 

[Lysander]

So don't knock down anyone's idea till you have one.

It's perfectly fair to decry someone else's idea if one thinks it's bad regardless of whether one can offer a solution.

 

[m@rty]

Yes

Let’s make it interesting, keyboard with razor blades attached

 

[deuse]

It's perfectly fair to decry someone else's idea if one thinks it's bad regardless of whether one can offer a solution.

And what would you do when non of the ideas come close to your liking?

Around and around you go while the world burns.

 

[Moley]

It's perfectly fair to decry someone else's idea if one thinks it's bad regardless of whether one can offer a solution.

It's lazy and it's unhelpful. If you can't do a better job than someone else, criticising their efforts is just nitpicking for the sake of it and should be dismissed out of hand.

 

[VincentHanna]

It's lazy and it's unhelpful. If you can't do a better job than someone else, criticising their efforts is just nitpicking for the sake of it and should be dismissed out of hand.

Is "Close all the mosques" a better comment than "This is a complicated issue, I don't know what the solution is" though?

 

[Lysander]

It's lazy and it's unhelpful. If you can't do a better job than someone else, criticising their efforts is just nitpicking for the sake of it and should be dismissed out of hand.

It depends what that 'job' is, my friend. Fixing a bathroom tap or making some food from leftovers after the shops have shut, yes. But you want me to propose a solution for Islamic fundamentalism? In such a case it is much easier to point out what the bad or dangerous measures are than propose effective ones. It is an immensely complex issue bound up in, as I have stated in this thread, a mixture of religion, circumstance, politics and psychology.

EDIT: @VincentHanna gets it.

 

[Moley]

Is "Close all the mosques" a better comment than "This is a complicated issue, I don't know what the solution is" though?

One is a suggestion and one is an observation. The suggestion might be rubbish (hint: it is) but it is at least proactive and drives the conversation forward. The observation not so much.

 

[robgmun]

It's lazy and it's unhelpful. If you can't do a better job than someone else, criticising their efforts is just nitpicking for the sake of it and should be dismissed out of hand.

This, and the nit-picking is just the left not liking any solution that has been provided because it's distasteful to their sensitive sensibilities

 

[Roar87]

It's not acceptable for French people to no longer feel safe in their own country.

 

[deuse]

It depends what that 'job' is, my friend. Fixing a bathroom tap or making some food from leftovers after the shops have shut, yes. But you want me to propose a solution for Islamic fundamentalism? In such a case it is much easier to point out what the bad or dangerous measures are than propose effective ones. It is an immensely complex issue bound up in, as I have stated in this thread, a mixture of religion, circumstance, politics and psychology.

EDIT: @VincentHanna gets it.

No he hasn't...some people. This guy has.

One is a suggestion and one is an observation. The suggestion might be rubbish (hint: it is) but it is at least proactive and drives the conversation forward. The observation not so much.

 

[Richard - London]

Closing Mosques will only make it worse. There is a Muslim population in Europe, there's no changing that (without pretty much forcefully deporting every Muslim from the continent).

To be fair if it becomes to much of a problem there are other ways.

 

[neil_g]

i dont think its unreasonable to call a rubbish idea rubbish to be honest.

someone cited another country closing all mosques the other day, read into it and it just drives the attendees to meet up elsewhere. closing mosques would not stop radicals. if anything it may make matters worse maybe.

deporting anyone to their home country for inciting terror/hate I wouldn't have a problem with though.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Maybe it's a period that needs to be gone through for Islam to modernise, in the same way that Christianity had to modernise from the medieval witch trials, etc.

You still get 'Christians' who go nuts and gun down a load of people because God told them to, though...

When will the penny finally drop?

When someone reaches the top of the Eiffel Tower and lines the penny up with the top of a terrorist's head?

Beheading people is certain way to make people fearful of Muslims.

But they'll be angry-scared, not running away scared.

No true Scotsman fallacy.

Fallacy-dropping fallacy.

It's lazy and it's unhelpful. If you can't do a better job than someone else, criticising their efforts is just nitpicking for the sake of it and should be dismissed out of hand.

OK, how about this - All the non-Muslims kill themselves and let Muslims have the world. That WILL stop all these terrorist attacks on non-Muslim people, guaranteed.....
See, you don't need a better idea to justify pointing out that the currently proposed one is utter crap. It's almost like a differential diagnosis/process of elimination kind of thing.

 

[Freddie1980]

Or how about having a tight grip of mosques and deporting any Imams that spread hate and poison to the masses? It's shameful how long it took to get rid of the Imam with the hook, what happened to him should have happened years before

I think the spreading of islamic extremism via mosques is a bit old hat these days, old hook hand was the exception rather then the rule. Online social media is far more effective and can be done anonymously.

 

[LOAM]

This, and the nit-picking is just the left not liking any solution that has been provided because it's distasteful to their sensitive sensibilities

That's just lazy comment Rob, this isn't happening because the left have let it, we haven't had a left wing government for, actually I don't know if we've ever had a left wing government.
Anyway Its as stupid to do nothing as it is to do something extreme and the only way to actually resolve something like this is by looking at first principle causes and doing something to fix that. But that involves a significant change in both foreign policy and environmental policy across the entire Western World and its not something that is going to happen over night. A simple question to ask is why are people fleeing areas of the middle east and risking their lives to get out, why are people so angry they will cut someones head off in front of a church? The answer isn't because their religion told them to do it!

None of the above excuses what has happened today or in previous attacks by the way but its not as simple as its often portrayed on this forum. Its very sad that innocents get tangled up in problems caused by things so far removed from them but I don't think there's a political will never mind society wide will, to ask the difficult questions needed to even start the process never mind fix it.

 

[rare]

I think the spreading of islamic extremism via mosques is a bit old hat these days, old hook hand was the exception rather then the rule. Online social media is far more effective and can be done anonymously.

While this is true it’s a known fact that extremists have attended certain mosques and that some of them have aided in the creation of fundamentalists. And they are building mosques in every city in Western Europe. Every time I go on Facebook I get an advert looking for donations for a mosque that’s being built in Europe.