As soon as he started to slow the back end stepped out and it was gone. As proven, he wasn't the only person caught out by this, Barrichello did exactly the same thing, but I don't see anyone slating him..
Belgium Grand Prix 2010, Spa-Francorchamps Circuit - Race 13/19
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As soon as he started to slow the back end stepped out and it was gone. As proven, he wasn't the only person caught out by this, Barrichello did exactly the same thing, but I don't see anyone slating him..
I hear what you are saying.
If it were anybody but Alonso, we could make allowances for his occassional poor performances. But this is ALONSO. He is supposed to be the best, but he is not putting in performances which suggest he is top dog.
Ferrari brought him in especially to win the title. Their part was to provide him with a competitive car. His part was to drive the car to the limit.
There have been far too many times this season where, he has found himself following his team-mate, despite being much faster.
Today was a good example, where he spun, all by himself (he wasnt being pressured by anybody behind him). We have not seen this sort of an error from Hamilton (who is Alonso's competition, for the top dog title).
In 2007, although Alonso finished joint 2nd, I felt that I was watching the most complete driver in F1. Even in 2008, he managed to haul a poor Renault and get a win (+ the win at Singapore). In 2010 however, he just isnt delivering to the same level.
Had Alonso been in a RedBull he would certainly have score many more points than Webber/Vettel. But if Hamilton was also at RedBull, would he be leading? I think not.
All good points.
Personally, I think Alonso has been mega unlucky this season as opposed to his previous seasons, yet he was close to the championship leaders before this race (He could have easily had 15 - 20 more points).
Saying that though, since he's at Ferrari and his name is ALONSO, all his mistakes get identified a lot more than most other drivers. Which has its downsides, but I think it also shows how good he is as well - comparing to his team mate who has been at Ferrari longer.
His mistake today was indeed a bit silly and also unlucky at the same time imo, if I was him I would be raging hard and wanting to rectify it with strong points finishes at the next races.
Anyway my point is that, saying Alonso isn't living up to the hype after his mistake today isn't 100% fair, and we should wait until the final races of the season to see how good he actually is, in a Ferrari.
Regarding the last part, I think it's too hard to say who would be better in the RB car, that car must be a lot different to drive than the McLaren and Ferrari so both drivers would need some adjustments. Alonso being the more experienced would be faster I think...
Didn't Hamilton take a trip through the gravel today? Just luck kept him out of the wall, it could very easily have been a Hamilton DNF from the lead.
Alonso messed up yesterday. He finished 1s slower than his team-mate, which is massive.
Brundle revealed that the reason for this was that he set his car up for a full wet quali/race. Someone like Alonso should've known that this was risky and was not needed given that he had good pace.
He then compounded Saturday's error, in the race.
So, 2 errors: 1 on Saturday, 1 on Sunday.
Comparing this to Hamilton: he produced the lap of the season on Saturday and on Sunday, although he made an error, he led the race and ultimately won. Even if he had gone out, he would've gone out leading.
I understand where you guys are coming from, but the 'best driver in F1' shouldnt be making these sorts of errors, when average drivers like Mark Webber or even Massa are going through the weekend without making any errors.
In a damp race like today, the better drivers usually differentiate themselves from the lesser drivers and Alonso failed to do this, where Hamilton succeeded.
Well Ferrari really haven't provided him with that consistent a car this season. To borrow a line of your own, to see the real performance of the ferrari this season look at how his team mate has done.
At times this season Alonso has looked a threat, yet only once this year has Massa looked like he could win and even then we all know the reality was Alonso was much faster.
Alonsos trouble today was everyone thought the rain would be longer and harder than it was. From 10th they went too high on the downforce, so Alonso had no straight line speed.
That makes no sense to me what so ever at Spa. One reason being we have seen in the last couple of years that as soon as a couple of cars spin and webber starts crying the safety car comes out faster than you can say Leggards a ****. You lose that advantage running such a wet set up if the safety car comes out due to the cars running lower settings going off.
As clv101 said Hamilton did make a mistake today and was very very lucky to get away with it. Infact Vettel could have done Hamilton a favour taking Button out of the running. The end could have been more interesting had button still been running, especially with the last safety car period. (Well thats assuming Jenson didn't get a save fuel message).
It's the weather, all you can rely on is the information from the team. Lets be honest everyone expected rain harder and earlier than it came. Had that happened he may have been looking good.
That said I think it was a poor gamble for the team to take as the cars give up unlike say Spain 96 when they would carry on racing in extreme circumstances.
yea but its hamilton so people like to make out hes 100% perfect and doesnt make mistakes like alonso
Caporegime
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I have to say Hamilton's only real mistakes in the past few years are "tactical" ones that are basically his teams decisions, not his.
He hit the gravel today, but that was in changing track conditions as he tried to do two things, maintain the gap to the guys behind him, stay competitive on time with unknown conditions. Hamilton needed to go faster than the guys behind him, honestly, Alonso just wasn't under the same pressure because of where he was, losing a few seconds wasn't going to make ANY difference, so he wasn't pushing as hard as Hamilton.
Hamilton locked under breaking into a corner in changing conditions, ALonso hit the curb, which is a HUGE problem in the rain and he started accelerating with his rear tire on the curb, thats schoolboy to be honest and completely different. Any old driver should know, wait 2 seconds when all 4 tires are on the track before going, Alonso maybe a schoolboy error under no real pressure to be that fast. Hamilton made a far more understandable error in changing conditions while under huge pressure to not do an overly slow lap.
The only thing I'm a little unsure of today is, why did Button look SO competitive with Hamilton in the first lap, and the first few corners after the restart, he was bearing down on Hamilton and right after that, I'm not really sure when his "damage" occured but it didn't seem to affect him at first, then after a few laps Hamilton just pulled away like they were in different cars altogether(much like most races this season).
I did honestly wonder if the "your wing is screwed, switch to F setup" wasn't code for, haha, Hamiltons away, Webber's boobed up, use our F setup which as you know, isn't quite as fast but kills the airflow behind the car making it extremely hard to pass you
Then again in qualy yesterday, almost everyone was significantly slower in those last laps as the track was getting a little wet, I was very surprised to see Button go faster in those conditions, though Hamilton improved by a much bigger margin.
exactly drunken master its not like hamilton ever threw good points away like monza last year 
turn fanboy mode off for a second
see it can work both ways.... people had been riding kerbs all weekend aswell even when it was wet the kerbs are coated in paint that has a lot of sand in it so they arent as slippery as the kerbs of old
turn fanboy mode off for a second
yea alonso slid on a kerb today but that was in changing track conditions hamilton wasnt under the same pressure because alonso had a lot of places to make up and a lot of time to gain he was pushing to the limit in changing conditions, hamilton wasnt pushing as hard as alonso because he only needed to maintain a gap.
see it can work both ways.... people had been riding kerbs all weekend aswell even when it was wet the kerbs are coated in paint that has a lot of sand in it so they arent as slippery as the kerbs of old
Caporegime
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exactly drunken master its not like hamilton ever threw good points away like monza last year
turn fanboy mode off for a second
yea alonso slid on a kerb today but that was in changing track conditions hamilton wasnt under the same pressure because alonso had a lot of places to make up and a lot of time to gain he was pushing to the limit in changing conditions, hamilton wasnt pushing as hard as alonso because he only needed to maintain a gap.
see it can work both ways.... people had been riding kerbs all weekend aswell even when it was wet the kerbs are coated in paint that has a lot of sand in it so they arent as slippery as the kerbs of old
Yes but the replay without question shows something very basic, he accelerated with his back wheel on the curb, thats a major error, no two ways about it.
As for Alonso, he was way down, nothing was going to get him 15 points + that day, I can't honestly say there wasn't a large gap to those behind him but he was up to a certain couple cars breezing through the field, there was very little danger and IF he made a mistake he wouldn't be giving up 25 points.
If Hamilton makes a mistake he could lose 25 points with only a couple laps to go, there was WAY more pressure on him and theres two obvious things, breaking point under changing wet conditions are literally guesses, not accelerating when your back wheel on a curb is something the lowest of rookies knows not to do.
AS you said, you can turn it around, except for the fact that the curb wasn't a changing condition, if those curbs are even the tinniest bit wet, putting your foot down with one of your wheels on it, is a HUGE, absolutely shockingly big mistake, the difference between waiting 2 seconds to put his foot down would maybe cost him 2/10ths of a second in his lap time, his mistake was MASSIVE and no you can't turn it around because wet curb, lightly wet, massively wet, you treat it the same, carefully. Unknown breaking points are just that, unknown.
I did honestly wonder if the "your wing is screwed, switch to F setup" wasn't code for, haha, Hamiltons away, Webber's boobed up, use our F setup which as you know, isn't quite as fast but kills the airflow behind the car making it extremely hard to pass you
Call me a cynical conspiracy theorist but the exact same thing crossed my mind when I heard the team radio. Not some special set up, just a coded instruction.
I'm not sure what they'd have to gain by having button back up the chasing pack but as shown in the end that extra buffer turned out to be critical when Hamilton had is off in the gravel.
Highlights - Lewis Hamilton wins Belgian Grand Prix
Highlights from a dramatic afternoon's racing at the Spa circuit as Lewis Hamilton holds on to take victory in the Belgium Grand Prix.
IPlayer Formula 1 - 2010 - The Belgian Grand Prix
Jake Humphrey is at Spa-Francorchamps for the Belgian Grand Prix, as Formula 1 returns after a month-long summer break.
Sebastian Vettel crashes into Jenson Button in Spa
Sebatian Vettel loses control of his Red Bull and crashes into McLaren's Jenson Button ending the British driver's 2010 Belgian Grand Prix.
Belgian Grand Prix - Top three drivers
McLaren's Lewis Hamilton gives his reaction after victory at the Belgian Grand Prix ahead of championship rival Mark Webber of Red Bull and Renault's Robert Kubica.
To add to the flexi wing issue...
- RBR had senior carbon composite guys from the factory lingering around at Spa
- The wing definitely wasn't flexing as much as we are used to, by looking at on-car footage from the race. But Spa is a lowER downforce circuit than some of the other recent ones, which maybe meant the wing wouldn't flex as much anyway.
- RBR had senior carbon composite guys from the factory lingering around at Spa
- The wing definitely wasn't flexing as much as we are used to, by looking at on-car footage from the race. But Spa is a lowER downforce circuit than some of the other recent ones, which maybe meant the wing wouldn't flex as much anyway.
He's fast becoming one of the disappointments of the season for me. He's got pace, but he puts himself into positions where a crash becomes inevitable. Nice to see Horner remaining true to form and trying to shift the blame onto Button (braking unexpectedly early? Pfft). He's another disappointment this year.
I don't read anything into that, I'd have had them there just in case as well. If you might need to bodge something together if the cars failed inspection at any time better to be ready.
As you said I'm sure the lack of flex is purely down to the nature of the circuit.
So Massa was quicker than Alonso due to the rear wing that only he had?
Huh?
Massa was quicker because Alonso had a wetter car set up and gambled on more rain for god knows what reason. To be honest it doesn't really matter Alonso is out of the title race now and for that reason they will strip him or the team of a few more points next week.
They are good at giving penalties when they are meaningless for effect. Pretty much like Vettels drive through once the gig was already up.