Belgium Grand Prix 2010, Spa-Francorchamps Circuit - Race 13/19
- Thread starter Glaucus
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Man of Honour
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I expect a suspended sentence. They dare not go against Ferrari. They do love their meaningless penalties - like when Schumacher rammed Villeneuve off to *try* and win the championship. Schumahcer came off worse and didn't win the championship, so they were like, lets strip him of all of his points
. Big freakin whoop. They do this on a regular basis.Barrichello doesnt do it over and over again though does he - how many times has Vettel had these kinds of incidents in the last two seasons - 3 or four times at least, and yet he STILL does them with little to no effect on him (MW lost a race win and a good chunk of points, and Vettel was at least initially congratulated by his team for trying / Button loses a good chance at the Championship in conditions that suited him (and while we didnt know at the time - any lost time would have disappeared later in the race due to other circumstances) Australia last year he took out someone also....Im sure there were others also
How often has Barrichello been responsible for similar incidences (even though there is a HUGE diff between taking out 9th at the beginning of the race and 2nd 1/4 - 1/2 way through)- yesterday was probably the 1st in the same time period
Rarely do you see that much rain on a camera lens unless its ACTUALLY raining - the camera men are usually pretty quick in cleaning between showers from what Ive noticed in the past
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I suspect it was a move made out of frustration, he couldn't get anywhere near Button on the run up from Eau Rouge and along Kemmel to even think about making a pass at Les Combs. The bus stop was probably his best other chance to pass. Button put his car exactly where he needed to cover off Vettel and for whatever reason, be it inexperience or frustration he made his move far too late and far to quickly and lost the rear of the car. Quite how Barrys accident is similar I don't know, the track was wet as opposed to dry and he just locked the brakes and merrily sailed into the rear of Alonso? It was picked up on in here and during the race, Vettel is ultimately learning at the sharp end of the field and any mistakes are there for the world to see.
Intially I thought the track was wet but after seeing the replay and what JB said it was clearly dry. Which makes it a very odd crash and as such voted no opinion. Pros and cons, I don't see how it can be compare to any other accident in that race. Closest similar situation is vettel crashing into MW but vettel was knocked out and they where team mates which usually more lisnient, probably due to team managers not asking stewards.
If you're on about the moment of Vettel & Button's collision, Jenson said in the forum later that the track was completely dry.
Man of Honour
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Absolutely. And it is made even more ridiculous by Horner suggesting that Button braked early. As if Button is actually going to brake early when he is defending his position!
It amazes me that people are STILL saying that even Vettel loses the championship this year his time will come. Based on this kind of performance that might be just a little bit optimistic.
However, I was very impressed by Vettel off the start when Kubica pushed him onto the grass at 180mph+. How that was missed by the stewards and how Vettel didn't crash I will never know. Seemed just as dangerous as Barrichello getting pushed into the wall to me, if not more so.
Duke said:
I'm voting "no penalty".
Keith Collantine is right when he says that we can't have penalties for every driver who loses control by accident and happens to hit someone else. Yes, Vettel has done it more than once. Yes, he's an arrogant little ballbag and it's about time he was taken down a peg or six. But the last time I checked, drive-thru penalties aren't handed out to people just for being arrogant ballbags. They're handed out for breaches of the regulations, and I'm not sure that crash really counts.
It is, however, time someone sat Vettel down and asked him what the **** he thinks he's up to.
Button was right to cover his line, I'm not critisising him in any way, so we're clear here. As soon as he flicked left, he'd lost control. Once you lose control, as I'm sure you're plenty aware, you're pretty much a passenger in the wet/damp conditions. It's sheer bad luck that he hit Button in the way that he did, but a lot of people on here will only look at it from the McLaren perspective. Title probably ruined for both, but accidents happen. Yes, Vettel's made a lot of mistakes, but remember a certain young British lad making a lot of rookie errors when he suddenly found himself in the midst of a title-winning car?
FWIW - I didn't read the rest of the thread from before 6pm yesterday, because I knew what the gist of the conversation would be about, and I'll probably get banned for swearing at blind people.
It all really rests on whether you view it as an accidental loss of control through no real fault of his own or because he was being rash, braked late, tried to make a very abrupt change of direction and couldn't keep it under control.
Alonso going off for example (lets hypothetically say he had hit someone too) would be nothing other than an accident, a little bit too much power on a slippery kerb and it spun him round. Maybe a bit too eager on the throttle but you can't criticise it that much. It was a spin born out of a small misjudgement of grip.
With Vettel's incident though, there is the argument that he brought it on himself by attempting a stupid move that was never happening in a million years and then being overly aggressive in his handling of the car to try and bail back out of the mistake and just making it worse. This is a spin that was arguably born out of rash and silly driving.
I've not gone back and watched it again so i'm reserving opinion one way or the other for now, but at the time it looked more to me like he threw the car into a spin with an abrupt swapping of sides more than it did the car just getting skittish under harsh braking.
Giood win for Hammy...couldnt watch the race as i had to go heathrow to drop my bro and family off as they were going back to Canada. But kept up to date via my F1 Blackberry app and was pleased as punch when Hammy won...even more pleased to see that ****wit Vettel end up near the back...idiot for crashing into Button but as i dont really like the pair of them its no big deal for me.
Just happy that Hammy pulled out a win and edged further ahead in the driver standings.
Just happy that Hammy pulled out a win and edged further ahead in the driver standings.
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I think it was just to calm him down before something much more serious happens. Nigel Mansell spoke a lot of truth in his interview with the BBC. Too many drivers today think they are invincible because of how strong the cars are, in all of the formulas, not just F1. Like Mansell said, back in his day the drivers gave each other a lot more respect because the consequences could be a lot more deadly.
You can't just throw the car from the inside to the outside going into a chicane and expect it to end well. Just another example of Vettel's impatience and recklessness.
It was dry, Button when questioned stated it was dry. Vettel made no mention of it being wet/damp either and said that he lost it on a bump in the track. I dont think its has ruined either drivers title hopes, it certainly has not helped but given the advantage Red Bull believe they will have in the final races (excluding Monza) Vettel is still in with a decent shot.
I may be wrong then, I haven't seen any post-race stuff, couldn't stand listening to them bang on about Hamilton. I thought it started to rain around that time but again, I'm probably wrong as I've not watched it back again.
I just don't feel Vettel can do it any more. Looked a shoe-in earlier in the season, but balls-up after balls-up makes me think otherwise. If someone with a bit of racecraft were in that car, this championship would be over.
Other crashes aren't the same though.
1) they where not wheel to wheel in a corner
2) it wasn't wet and just misjudged a braking point
3) he lost it due to an aggressive shift in direction, which was avoidable.
4) he took out a championship contender whilst keeping himself in a decent point situation.
I'm sure all that and more meant he got a penalty while others haven't. As JB it was an odd accident, it wasn't just a clipped wing while side by side, or having no braking power in the wet.
However after saying all that it's a very close call and I voted no opinion.
Vettel should not be blamed for what happened.
This is racing and it is the risk taking which generally pays dividends. Risk taking also gives us, the audience, plenty of excitement.
If all drivers took no risks, then F1 would be boring. I want to encourage overtaking, hence, punishing a move which went wrong is not a good thing.
This is racing and it is the risk taking which generally pays dividends. Risk taking also gives us, the audience, plenty of excitement.
If all drivers took no risks, then F1 would be boring. I want to encourage overtaking, hence, punishing a move which went wrong is not a good thing.