Best AGP card.

[Darkwave]

How is a 7900gt 256mb better than a bridged 7900gt 512mb.

A 7900GT 256MB is faster and much cheaper than a 7800GS+, not to mention that it can volt-mod and overclock to 7900GTX frequencies. That's how, accept it.

No one with a 7900GT class machine is going to upgrade it in the next 6 months or so.

Where did I say that they did? Please quote it. All through this thread I have been saying that I suggest people upgrading to a 7800GS+ get a PCI-E platform instead for less cost!

When my (just like yours) is being upgraded i'll be buying a DX10 video card and AM2 motherbord (a conroe jobby). You will do the same. I fail to see how anyone could claim a socket 754 based PCI-e motherboard is the future proof option.

Again all you do is sit there and put words into people's mouths. Please quote it! I have said that buying PCI-E cards is cheaper, and that you get much more selection (one card on AGP, dozens of equal or better cards on PCI-E for less cost.) If you want to be overcharged for a stupidly small amount of options though, I guess that's fine, but most people don't like to be ripped off.

Lets just say June 2007 - I upgrade from s939 x3800 and AGP 7900gt to oh I dunno, whatever the X2 is then on AM2, 5000 or something. I also then upgrade to my DX10 card because Vista has been out for 6 months are we're on gen 2 DX10 card with games coming out.

You at the same time would have to do exactly the same. To kee p a current proc you will have to change your motherboard. To get DX10 you will have to change you video card.

Again, and for the last time, I ask you where I said otherwise. I never claimed that PCI-E is more future proof, just that it's cheaper and gives you many more options.

Put it this way, you just spent a lot more on your graphics upgrade than I did, and than pretty much anyone else using PCI-E upgrades. We will put that money into DirectX 10 when the time is right, or a good few nights out with the girls before then.

I don't see the massive advantage you seem to think you have?!?!

I've not been ripped off, and can use any graphics card up to the X1900XT-X or 7900GTX XXX.

My 7800GT runs at 520/1500 quite happily just using coolbits so that's conservative at best and with ATI tool checking for artifacts I expect it could do more

At stock: 7900GT > 7800GS+.

Overclocked: 7900GT @ 7900GTX speeds >>> 7800GS+ at just over 7900GT speeds. I think you should've done some research before getting ripped off.

 

[easyrider]

My 7800GT runs at 520/1500 quite happily just using coolbits so that's conservative at best and with ATI tool checking for artifacts I expect it could do more

TBH thats a poor auto detect in coolbits.

MY old 7900 GT auto detected

580/1760 and it cost me 199 quid!

 

[Darkwave]

TBH thats a poor auto detect in coolbits.

MY old 7900 GT auto detected

580/1760 and it cost me 199 quid!

LOL. Don't tell him what they overclock to with a volt mod, he might cry.

 

[tmileson]

Oh actually in your favour I just spotted a better comparisson

Gainward BLISS Geforce 7900 GT "Golden Sample" 512MB PCI-e £281 inc VAT so same spec but £45 cheaper. Add the PCI-e mother board and we're still back to even.

So still negligable difference in spec and speed, hardly worth the effort you seem to be putting into trying to persuade anyone buying the AGP version that they are some kind of fool..

Thanks for the stupid Kid comment, glad to see who's resorting to insults ...

 

[Darkwave]

Oh actually in your favour I just spotted a better comparisson

Gainward BLISS Geforce 7900 GT "Golden Sample" 512MB PCI-e £281 inc VAT so same spec but £45 cheaper. Add the PCI-e mother board and we're still back to even.

So still negligable difference in spec and speed, hardly worth the effort you seem to be putting into trying to persuade anyone buying the AGP version that they are some kind of fool..

Thanks for the stupid Kid comment, glad to see who's resorting to insults ...

The 7900GT 256MB is faster than a 7800GS+, the 7900GT 512MB is stupidly faster. Both will overclock stupidly better.

You're just sticking your fingers in your ears and saying la-la-la when we are giving you the facts, and frankly it's ******* annoying. Ah well. We rest assured in the knowledge that we have not been ripped off, you have.

Enjoy your AGP, chum...p.

 

[easyrider]

Oh actually in your favour I just spotted a better comparisson

Gainward BLISS Geforce 7900 GT "Golden Sample" 512MB PCI-e £281 inc VAT so same spec but £45 cheaper. Add the PCI-e mother board and we're still back to even.

So still negligable difference in spec and speed, hardly worth the effort you seem to be putting into trying to persuade anyone buying the AGP version that they are some kind of fool..

Thanks for the stupid Kid comment, glad to see who's resorting to insults ...

Have you been reading my posts?

I have already made this comparison.

the 24 pipe 7800 GS is 328
The 24 pipe 7900 512mb gt is 281

The pci-e version is both faster and cheaper including buying a new mobo.

 

[tmileson]

loads of stuff by Exsomnis

Glad to see you conceeded that your PCI-e option isn't more future proof, that's been the whole point if you took the time to read the posts.

The only real difference like for like is a small (at best) difference in price and a small difference in performance. Quoting volt mods etc is neither here not there, that's not what we're talking about (do you know that the same could not be done on the 7800GS given it's the same GPU and memory?). I don't know and don't really care to be honest.

I'm still waiting to hear what your PC does in day to day use that mine doesn't that make you think Overclockers ripped me off... Nope, that's nothing. In fact as I can drop in a FX60 I'd say you made the wrong choice. By your arguments you must be gutted you "invested" with an obsolete 754 based motherboard. I don't see how you investing in a dead motherboard technology is a good move and anyone investing in AGP is stupid.

You say you can drop in an XT1900, you haven't though so more pointless comparissons....


The point made at the very begining was there's almost no difference, PCI-e might be fractionaly cheaper and quicker, AGP is a little easier to do and works in situations where people might have to replace more than just a motherboard.

Willy waving about how l33t your overclocks are is neither here nor there although I'm happy for you...

When I said AM2 (a conroe jobbie) it was a typo, it meant to say OR Conroe just to illustrate there were other options than AMD. Thanks for the insults again though. As you're getting a bit personal and insulting now I'd suggest the Dons lock the thread.

 

[tmileson]

Have you been reading my posts?

I have already made this comparison.

the 24 pipe 7800 GS is 328
The 24 pipe 7900 512mb gt is 281

The pci-e version is both faster and cheaper including buying a new mobo.

You can't add up can you?

the 24 pipe 7800 GS is 328 - Agreed
The 24 pipe 7900 512mb gt is 281 - Agreed

Plus a PCI-e motherboard for ~£50 = £331. How is that cheaper?

 

[easyrider]

When I said AM2 (a conroe jobbie) it was a typo, it meant to say OR Conroe just to illustrate there were other options than AMD. Thanks for the insults again though. As you're getting a bit personal and insulting now I'd suggest the Dons lock the thread.

I was not being insulting you started insulting me about PCI-e justification.
I was highlighting that conroe is not AM2

 

[easyrider]

You can't add up can you?

the 24 pipe 7800 GS is 328 - Agreed
The 24 pipe 7900 512mb gt is 281 - Agreed

Plus a PCI-e motherboard for ~£50 = £331. How is that cheaper?

You can get cheaper pci-e mobos than 50 quid we all know that.
And I can add up thanks for asking.

There is 3 quid difference in your arguement. Straw clutching at best!
Going on the basis of the upgrade to pci-e at 50 it cost 3 quid more for a faster card with better upgrade options.

 

[tmileson]

You can get cheaper pci-e mobos than 50 quid we all know that.

OK £40... so it's a whole £8 cheaper... Not really a massive deal is it and hardly means Overclockers "ripped me off". :/

***edit because you just edited your post***
I never said AGP was cheaper or faster. YOU said it was cheaper and now say it's not necessarily. Exomnis has already said it's not necessarily more future proof so between you I'm missing what your argument is? I never said AGP was faster, if I was worried about speed I certainly wouldn't bother with ANY 7900GT, i'd have PCI-e and a top end X1900. Personaly the 7900gt AGP does me (an I suspect many people) just fine for a year or so until AM2/Conroe/DDR2 & DX10 is a proper next step upgrade.

Doing the PCI-e route is fine if you want to, no one said it wasn't. I'd still say going the AGP route isn't just for some kind of fool like you seem to make out ***Edit***

I never insulted, I just joked you were defending your spend on you PCI-e upgrade, hardly an insult.

In return i'm getting called an "scarcastic arsehat", "Your lack of knowledge of PC hardware is coming through in your posts", "stupid kid" "ripped off" "might cry" yada yada

getting personal and nasty. My point from the start is the AGP version is a good choice, both PCI-e and AGP routes have advantages and it's worth not dismissing out of hand.

The two of you have treated any of the posters mentioning AGP with insults, disdain and frankly childish attempts to go 2 on 1 to bully someone into keeping quiet, patting each other on the back when you think you scored a point.

All very unecessary in what was supposed to be a inteligent discussion around the alternative and relative advantages.

 

[easyrider]

OK £40... so it's a whole £8 cheaper... Not really a massive deal is it and hardly means Overclockers "ripped me off". :/

***edit because you just edited your post***
I never said AGP was cheaper or faster. YOU said it was cheaper and now say it's not necessarily. Exomnis has already said it's not necessarily more future proof so between you I'm missing what your argument is? I never said AGP was faster, if I was worried about speed I certainly wouldn't bother with ANY 7900GT, i'd have PCI-e and a top end X1900. Personaly the 7900gt AGP does me (an I suspect many people) just fine for a year or so until AM2/Conroe/DDR2 & DX10 is a proper next step upgrade.

Doing the PCI-e route is fine if you want to, no one said it wasn't. I'd still say going the AGP route isn't just for some kind of fool like you seem to make out ***Edit***

I never insulted, I just joked you were defending your spend on you PCI-e upgrade, hardly an insult.

In return i'm getting called an "scarcastic arsehat", "Your lack of knowledge of PC hardware is coming through in your posts", "stupid kid" "ripped off" "might cry" yada yada

getting personal and nasty. My point from the start is the AGP version is a good choice, both PCI-e and AGP routes have advantages and it's worth not dismissing out of hand.

The two of you have treated any of the posters mentioning AGP with insults, disdain and frankly childish attempts to go 2 on 1 to bully someone into keeping quiet, patting each other on the back when you think you scored a point.

All very unecessary in what was supposed to be a inteligent discussion around the alternative and relative advantages.

I think that maybe you need to read this thread again.
You began baiting and when people respond you get all defensive.
Your posts have hardly been intelligent discussion.

You have dismissed what is clearly good advice and information

It is clear that the PCi-e upgrade option is the better choice and offers more choice of cards etc...

But you refuse to admit it.
I have not stated you have been ripped off once in this thread.I stated the option of getting a new mobo rather than a 320 quid agp is the better option IMO.

The advantages of having a current slot in your pc makes upgrade paths easier and in fact can make stuff like ram and cpu last longer in fact.

Nothing more nothing less.

 

[tmileson]

I think that maybe you need to read this thread again.
You began baiting and when people respond you get all defensive.
Your posts have hardly been intelligent discussion.

You have dismissed what is clearly good advice and information

It is clear that the PCi-e upgrade option is the better choice and offers more choice of cards etc...

But you refuse to admit it.
I have not ststed you have been ripped off ever in this thread.I stated the option of getting anew mobo rather than a 320 quid agp is the better option IMO.The advantages of having a current slot in your pc makes upgrade paths easier and in fact can make stuff like ram and cpu last longer in fact.

Nothing more nothing less.

I didn't bait anyone...

The PCI-e option is clear in your mind, you are rude and dismissive to anyone that didn't agree (and not just me)

Can't be bothered to go back but you or Exm said "ripped off several times" can't remember who but then again i never said it was you, i just said it was mentioned.

You've continualy posted opinions without once adding any facts to back it up. When we finaly got down to you posting prices you end up admitting it was more expensive for your quoted PCI-e option. Yay by £3!!

You've tried to bully you argument across by continually stating things as FACT with no back up or figures. When you were taken to task by me and GAV you dismaiss it with "you're too busy to look it up" or some vague statement that we can't see what's right in front of us.

You refuse to accept that the differences between the two approaches are small and in some situations one way makes just as much sense as another.

You continue to ignore elements of any post that sounds like it weakens your assertions and just rely on a blanket statement "PCI-e is clearly the better option FACT".

If that doesn't sound fun enough you then try to "gang up" with Exmonis and try for childish condecending jibes with back slapping and congratualting each other on just how good that last post was.

Ultimately, you have still missed the whole point of the posts and ignored them. What does your PCI-e solution allow you to do on a day to day basis that my AGP one doesn't.

It's not massively cheaper (and certainly not the £100 you claimed and seem to have since forgotten).
It may be a little faster but not by so much on a like for like card it's worth getting excited about - 1fps extra really doesn't worry me.
It's certainly more hassle (especially for people having to change CPU etc as well).
It's not future proof (in fact if I was to advise someone upgrading to PCI-e now I'd say wait for nForce5, rather than spend money of nforce now).
You say its more upgradable but ignore the fact that theres a fair chance most people with a 7900GT class card wont upgrade until DX10 in which case they will want an nforce 5 or AM2 mother board to go with it (depending on if they are going for a new proc as well).
In fact Exmo has already said he doesn't think it's more future proof.

If we were talking about pre 7800GS+ I'd have agreed with you. If we were talking about someone with the budget wanting a top end card I'd have agreed with you. We weren't.

So.. not cheaper, not really faster by any real margin, not more future proof in this case.

Hmmm...

Yes, PCI-e is a good option if you're that way inclined, but the AGP is hardly a fools option by any stretch of the imagination.

The only reason this discussion has gone on this long is you just won't accept anything other than your position about PCI-e is valid. I (and others) have repeatedly said there are advantages to PCI-e. We have also said AGP works for some as well and is far from a fools option. You however just seem to want to slam anyone who doesn't say PCI-e is only option worth considering.

 

[easyrider]

I didn't bait anyone...

The PCI-e option is clear in your mind, you are rude and dismissive to anyone that didn't agree (and not just me)

Can't be bothered to go back but you or Exm said "ripped off several times" can't remember who but then again i never said it was you, i just said it was mentioned.

You've continualy posted opinions without once adding any facts to back it up. When we finaly got down to you posting prices you end up admitting it was more expensive for your quoted PCI-e option. Yay by £3!!

You've tried to bully you argument across by continually stating things as FACT with no back up or figures. When you were taken to task by me and GAV you dismaiss it with "you're too busy to look it up" or some vague statement that we can't see what's right in front of us.

You refuse to accept that the differences between the two approaches are small and in some situations one way makes just as much sense as another.

You continue to ignore elements of any post that sounds like it weakens your assertions and just rely on a blanket statement "PCI-e is clearly the better option FACT".

If that doesn't sound fun enough you then try to "gang up" with Exmonis and try for childish condecending jibes with back slapping and congratualting each other on just how good that last post was.

Ultimately, you have still missed the whole point of the posts and ignored them. What does your PCI-e solution allow you to do on a day to day basis that my AGP one doesn't.

It's not massively cheaper (and certainly not the £100 you claimed and seem to have since forgotten).
It may be a little faster but not by so much on a like for like card it's worth getting excited about - 1fps extra really doesn't worry me.
It's certainly more hassle (especially for people having to change CPU etc as well).
It's not future proof (in fact if I was to advise someone upgrading to PCI-e now I'd say wait for nForce5, rather than spend money of nforce now).
You say its more upgradable but ignore the fact that theres a fair chance most people with a 7900GT class card wont upgrade until DX10 in which case they will want an nforce 5 or AM2 mother board to go with it (depending on if they are going for a new proc as well).
In fact Exmo has already said he doesn't think it's more future proof.

If we were talking about pre 7800GS+ I'd have agreed with you. If we were talking about someone with the budget wanting a top end card I'd have agreed with you. We weren't.

So.. not cheaper, not really faster by any real margin, not more future proof in this case.

Hmmm...

Yes, PCI-e is a good option if you're that way inclined, but the AGP is hardly a fools option by any stretch of the imagination.

The only reason this discussion has gone on this long is you just won't accept anything other than your position about PCI-e is valid. I (and others) have repeatedly said there are advantages to PCI-e. We have also said AGP works for some as well and is far from a fools option. You however just seem to want to slam anyone who doesn't say PCI-e is the only way forward.

If AGP at 320 quid was a good option then I would agree with you.But its not.So I won't.

Why will most people with 7900 GT class cards want new mobos aswell?I wont .I have the speed of FX 62 AM2 now and can still upgrade to DX 10 when its released.

AGP works for some people to lazy to get a faster card and to change their mobo.

This is a overclocking forum where people don 't find it that much of a chore to change a mobo that will allow them for future upgrades in GFX.

I'm glad you are happy with you 7800 GS.
I for one would be kicking myself I didn't get a pcie mobo though.But thats just me.I'm not bullying my arguement.I'm posting my opinion.You disagree and thats fine.

320 quid is a lot of money And I want the best I can afford.The 7800gs does not offer this hence my pci-e recommendation.

why you can get a 7900 GTX for 320 substantially faster than a 7800 GS agp and cheaper!

 

[tmileson]

Look this is getting silly... lets just agree to disagree... As far as i'm concerned thee's no where near enough difference to worry about to this level.

AGP works for some people to lazy to get a faster card and to change their mobo

All you continue to do now is use snide remarks and insults infering people that don't agree with you are being ripped off or should be kicking themselves

The big picture comparissons I did ages ago; PCI-e is a good option, AGP is as well, it depends what you want. I don't believe on the stuff we're talking about either option is particularly bad or good.

You have your opinion and you're perfectly entitled to it, i don't intend to continue to flog a dead horse... You're just not listening or prepared to accept anyone elses opinion...

 

[Darren555]

You are running your Gainward BLISS 7800 GS (GT) 512MB GDDR3 460/1350 clocks.

The cheaper 7900 GT on pci-e would happliy run 580/1800 giving better performance for less this includes the price of a new mobo.

Why did you choose a slower card for more money?

I sold my X800XT to a high street retailer for £147, fitted my new card in a couple of mins & overclocked it to 460/1350 without seeing how much higher it will go. It runs all my games a lot better than my old card at max settings so I don't see the need at present to push it further as I'm not interested in benchmarking bull.
That was a painless and worthwhile upgrade as far as I am concerned for relatively little outlay. I have been building PCs for nearly ten years and changing a mobo is never as easy to do properly.

 

[easyrider]

Look this is getting silly... lets just agree to disagree... As far as i'm concerned thee's no where near enough difference to worry about to this level.



All you continue to do now is use snide remarks and insults infering people that don't agree with you are being ripped off or should be kicking themselves

The big picture comparissons I did ages ago; PCI-e is a good option, AGP is as well, it depends what you want. I don't believe on the stuff we're talking about either option is particularly bad or good.

You have your opinion and you're perfectly entitled to it, i don't intend to continue to flog a dead horse... You're just not listening or prepared to accept anyone elses opinion...

Ok I agree we should agree to disagree
I accept other people opinions and respect their choices.Whether they are the correct ones is subject to debate.

If I was in the postion of spending 320 quid on gfx i would be getting the fastest card out there.X1900 or 7900 GTX regardless if this required getting a new mobo.

I would sell the old mobo and have the fastest GFX I could get.I think a lot of people would agree with me on this one.

 

[LoadsaMoney]

Ah but of course. So really, there is zero reason at all to upgrade to AM2/DX10 until the second half of 2007.

Depends how much DX10 stuff will be out i suppose, i can't see there being many DX10 games flooding out then either tbh, i think by that time there may be about 5, and even that could be generous which to me will still not be worth it, not for a £500 card, thats about £100 a game, and if you bought R600/G80 when they came out, then you'll be spending yet another £500 for sure, as theres bound to be a few more cards that will have appeared by the 2nd half of the year, the speedbumped ones will be out by then.

Way off topic this thread now so should be closed, the best AGP card is the Gainward 7800+ GS which i mentioned on the first page.

 

[semi-pro waster]

Wow, this thread is still going I didn't think it was all that contentious an issue but more importantly easyrider and Exsomnis ageeing, that is special It surely can't be that big a deal, on PCI-E an equivalent card is generally cheaper and easier to upgrade in the future, if you want to stick with AGP and factor in the cost/hassle of changing motherboard then it might not be so clear-cut but you still have less/no upgrade path on AGP beyond the 7800gs(7900gt as it is with Gainward).

I didn't intend to spark off a huge debate on the merits of AGP/PCI-E but at least it is a change from ATI/Nvidia AGP is a dead standard in that we have already seen the fastest cards that will be released for it, all future cards faster will be PCI-E, whether for AM2 or Conroe as a CPU basis isn't hugely important to me, PCI-E is the standard for all new graphics cards.

 

[tmileson]

Now the last two posts were the reasoned discussion we were having back on page one, and i fully agree. The only thing i'd say is they said there was no upgrade path for AGP past the 6800 and that changed . It wouldn't suprise me if the gainward 7900gt card sells well that other manufacturers bring out "one off" special editions.. No reason why you couldn't have a bridged x1900XTX in theory

It'll be the exception rather than the rule though and yes, new AGP cards are just "fillers" for the time being. Current generation DX9 card seem to be in a bit of a dead end as well though. What's the point in spending £400 on a top end DX9 card now when in a few months you'll be able to buy a DX10 one that's faster and supports the new standard... Same goes for the AGP version though.

Mid next year will be a good upgrade time. There should be enough DX10 games to make it worth while and we will have Gen 2 (or Gen 1 refresh) DX10 card to use with it, either paying £500 for the new cards of £300ish for the original DX10 ones.

Which is why i chose to go with the AGP 7800GS+, fast enough for the next year or so. Q2 or 3 next year will be new MB / Proc / RAM / GPU basis for me setting me up for a relatively easy upgrade path for 2 or 3 years after.