Blame on both sides

RoboCod · 17 Aug 2017 at 14:50

VincentHanna said:
Disingenuous in extreme

A cop is suing the leaders of BLM for money because he was shot by a lone sniper.

A form member here said they are just as much the culprits as the sniper...

I tried to find out their direct involvement in the shooting case, and nobody can even give me one link? I was just told to "connect the dots"

Let me Google that for you

So, as I asked earlier, if prosecuted successfully, will you change your view? I mean, surely if sued in a court if law then that would suggest that said BLM leaders are culprits and just as responsible for inciting the violence as say a bunch of white supremacists advocating ramming activists with a car? Right?

VincentHanna · 17 Aug 2017 at 14:55

Dis86 said:
No no, in your post earlier in the thread you grouped them together as one entity.

Quote me in context then, thanks

VincentHanna · 17 Aug 2017 at 14:56

RoboCod said:
Let me Google that for you

So, as I asked earlier, if prosecuted successfully, will you change your view? I mean, surely if sued in a court if law then that would suggest that said BLM leaders are culprits and just as responsible for inciting the violence as say a bunch of white supremacists advocating ramming activists with a car? Right?

I can clearly see they have been sued.

I asked what specific links they had to the shooter, as you have claimed they are just as responsible as the sniper who fired the bullet.

Whereas I have not said anyone else is just as responsible for the actions of the guy who ran over the crowd.

Dis86 · 17 Aug 2017 at 15:06

VincentHanna said:
Quote me in context then, thanks

VincentHanna said:
Well I never thought in my life that the majority of posters here would say that the Ku Klux Klan and actual Nazis, i.e. the side who killed a girl and injured 19 others was equally to blame as some Anti facist protestors

Wow.

Ta da!

VincentHanna · 17 Aug 2017 at 15:09

?

It was their side. Someone asked me to have the balls to take a side and my side will never be the one with Nazis and KKK members on it.

I didn't ever claim that anyone else was responsible, like this Baton Rogue shooting thing that was bought in to the thread.

Feel free to have the balls to state which side you are on.

Dis86 · 17 Aug 2017 at 15:14

VincentHanna said:
?

It was their side. Someone asked me to have the balls to take a side and my side will never be the one with Nazis and KKK members on it.

I didn't ever claim that anyone else was responsible, like this Baton Rogue shooting thing that was bought in to the thread.

Feel free to have the balls to state which side you are on.

I've already made it clear. Neither - they're both as bad as each other.

You're still trying to say this guy that killed the cops was an individual yet the guy that ran over that woman was part of a side.

So I guess we can take away that you side with the cop killers and those who stamp over the right to peaceful protest.

VincentHanna · 17 Aug 2017 at 15:26

No

Robocod claimed that BLM leaders are just as culpable as the shooter:

RoboCod said:
yes the culprit is not just the sniper but the whole group.

I never said he wasn't part of BLM (though I couldn't find a link on Google) - I said how can the leaders be as responsible as a lone shooter? He might be on their side, but that doesn't make them responsible for his actions.

Otherwise I would have said Jasson Kessler is as much to blame as James Alex Fields Jr.

Which I haven't.

FoxEye · 17 Aug 2017 at 15:34

jumpy said:
I've had a good read through this thread since it started and far too many people are getting bogged down with pointless semantics.

A spade is a spade; If a person dresses like a stormtrooper, seig-heils about the place with swastika flags and other emblems and totems of white supremacy, revering the nazi regime and all that it stood for, calling for the extermination of untermensch (blacks/jews/foreigners etc) as a part of their core beliefs of racial ideology and purity... then just call them what they are - a ******* nazi, and be done with it.

Nobody is conding Nazism or those who identify as Nazis. Let's get that straight. I think we all condemn them and their ideology in this thread.

Let me ask you a question.

Do we need armed groups of citizens to fight against armed groups of Nazis? Is this a good thing?

Should we not prefer the police and/or the military to deal with these "Nazis"?

How much are we going to embrace vigilantism and mob rule; how much are we going to justify violence by citizens against other citizens?

Let me ask another question:

Is it better/worse/any different when an angry mob kills a Nazi, then when a Nazi commits murder? Are they both murder, or is one morally more acceptable?

Dis86 · 17 Aug 2017 at 15:36

VincentHanna said:
the side who killed a girl and injured 19 others

VincentHanna said:
Whereas I have not said anyone else is just as responsible for the actions of the guy who ran over the crowd.

So come on then, did an individual kill the girl or the side?

You've already made your prejudice clear in this thread.

VincentHanna said:
my side will never be the one with Nazis and KKK members on it.

Which is ironic given that pretty much the entire topic at hand is about prejudice!

VincentHanna · 17 Aug 2017 at 15:42

FoxEye said:
Nobody is conding Nazism or those who identify as Nazis. Let's get that straight. I think we all condemn them and their ideology in this thread.

Let me ask you a question.

Do we need armed groups of citizens to fight against armed groups of Nazis? Is this a good thing?

Should we not prefer the police and/or the military to deal with these "Nazis"?

We're talking about the United States here

In the UK this wouldn't even be an issue as Nazis chanting "Jews will not replace us" would be arrested by the police.

Over there, the police can't do anything about this, because of their 1st amendment rights to freedom of speech, which many Americans believe allows you to say the nastiest retoric without consequence.

Also the police in America aren't as well armed as protesters sometimes, which is also ludicrous.

VincentHanna · 17 Aug 2017 at 15:45

Dis86 said:
So come on then, did an individual kill the girl or the side?

An individual.

Dis86 said:
Which is ironic given that pretty much the entire topic at hand is about prejudice!

Well i'm very sorry if i'm prejudiced towards Nazi facists and KKK racists.

Let me just repost this:

mmj_uk · 17 Aug 2017 at 15:53

What I don't like is how the left distort things whenever it suits their agenda to the point of being completely hypocritical and having double standards. For example, when a Muslim commits a terror attack the left will vehemently argue it's not Islam to blame even though the terrorist will swear on Allah that he did it in the name of Islam, yet when some nut job kills some people during a protest and we don't even know why he did it the same left are all too happy to jump to conclusions and not only blame but paint the whole of the right as Nazi's/KKK/white supremacists.

RoboCod · 17 Aug 2017 at 15:55

VincentHanna said:
We're talking about the United States here

In the UK this wouldn't even be an issue as Nazis chanting "Jews will not replace us" would be arrested by the police.

Over there, the police can't do anything about this, because of their 1st amendment rights to freedom of speech, which many Americans believe allows you to say the nastiest retoric without consequence.

Also the police in America aren't as well armed as protesters sometimes, which is also ludicrous.

Like I said earlier, the problem in the US is they are completely fixed on maintaining their rights, even if that comes at the expense of responsibility. They look down on the UK laws against hate speech seeing us as a state controlled nation without freedoms. Sure, I maintain that you don't have the right to not be offended, however, it's right that laws are in place to protect our citizens from feeling threatened and in danger. These extremist demonstrations are threatening. This is a case where responsibility should take precedence over right.

Dis86 · 17 Aug 2017 at 15:55

mmj_uk said:
What I don't like is how the left distort things whenever it suits their agenda to the point of being completely hypocritical. For example, when a Muslim blows up a concert it's not Islam to blame even though the terrorist will swear on Allah that he did it in the name of Islam, yet when some nut job kills some people during the protest we don't even know why he did it but the same left are all too happy to jump to conclusions and paint the whole of one side as Nazi's.

Which is precisely what's going on in this thread.

Amp34 · 17 Aug 2017 at 16:06

Tuppy_Glossop said:
Anarchy does not require the destruction of everything. It simply pursues the absolute freedom of the individual from state authority and control. If an anarchist destroys stuff you should blame the individual not the political ideology.

Which is a little ironic in this sense as many of those on right politically in the US would advocate the same things. Small state, freedom of the individual (to graze their cattle, to own weapons, to not pay taxes and not have a social healthcare system to name a few).

Rroff · 17 Aug 2017 at 16:07

mmj_uk said:
What I don't like is how the left distort things whenever it suits their agenda to the point of being completely hypocritical and having double standards. For example, when a Muslim commits a terror attack it's not Islam to blame even though the terrorist will swear on Allah that he did it in the name of Islam, yet when some nut job kills some people during a protest and we don't even know why he did it the same left are all too happy to jump to conclusions and not only blame put paint the whole of the right as Nazi's/KKK/white supremacists.

Yup on another forum the exact same people who do that had found the facebook posts identifying someone who turned out to be the previous owner of the car and immediately jumping on the whole Nazi thing and calling for violence against the individual - granted he did have a dubious past but IIRC turned out he had parted with the car long ago.

Rroff · 17 Aug 2017 at 16:11

VincentHanna said:
An individual.

Well i'm very sorry if i'm prejudiced towards Nazi facists and KKK racists.

Let me just repost this:

Absolutely no one, or at least pretty much no one, is saying here that Nazis and the likes shouldn't be dealt with harshly - what is being called out is the duplicity. hypocrisy and distortion.

RoboCod · 17 Aug 2017 at 16:13

Dis86 said:
Which is precisely what's going on in this thread.

Par for the course though isn't it.

Vonhelmet · 17 Aug 2017 at 16:15

Dis86 said:
And here gentlemen, we have number 2.

Haha, I had a feeling you'd say that.

Dis86 said:
Apparently he needs links to see that after a number of high profile shootings of black people by police officers in America, when a black man goes on a shooting rampage targeting police officers immediately afterwards that the motive is the shooting of black people by police officers...

Post hoc ergo propose hoc. I'm really racking up these logical fallacies today, huh?

Amp34 · 17 Aug 2017 at 16:16

sports_brah said:
Brb got called *********. Now people are doxxing me in real life, I've been fired from my job, ostracised in the community.

Oh wait that doesn't happen and you know it.

Way to take things out of context there.

Blaming one side for actions that are prevelant on both sides is the issue. Something so many fail to see.