BMW and M Power Owners

[TW]Fox · 30 Oct 2023 at 22:15

Cadder said:
Which engines/models are preferred for 2017-2020 3 series?
I have seen 320I, 320D, 330D and 335D that we like the look of. Just wanted to check in here in case a particular variant should be avoided.

Which version are you looking at? There is no 2017-2020 3 series, it was replaced part way through - there is the 2011-2018 and the 2019-2023 3 series.

The engines are different between them (the engine in the 330d for example is a different engine in the newer version then the older one).

Cadder · 31 Oct 2023 at 12:03

[TW]Fox said:
Which version are you looking at? There is no 2017-2020 3 series, it was replaced part way through - there is the 2011-2018 and the 2019-2023 3 series.

The engines are different between them (the engine in the 330d for example is a different engine in the newer version then the older one).

Sorry for the confusion - those are the model years (2017-2020) we have looked at based on our budget of around £20k. Are all the engines within that model year window good? Any to avoid? Any to prioritise?

[TW]Fox · 31 Oct 2023 at 12:09

Cadder said:
Sorry for the confusion - those are the model years (2017-2020) we have looked at based on our budget of around £20k. Are all the engines within that model year window good? Any to avoid? Any to prioritise?

A 2017/2018 3 Series is a completely different car to a 2019/2020 3 Series. The later version is much better and I would recommend you find one of these if possible - though your budget will limit you to the lower power engine options. I think all of the engines are good in the newer 3 series and the standard specification is good across the range, as well. You will likely find a lot of plug-in hybrid versions at this price - these will mostly be former company cars. As a used purchase of around £20k I don't think the plug in hybrid version is worth going for.

Do you have any examples of cars you've seen?

Cadder · 31 Oct 2023 at 12:26

[TW]Fox said:
A 2017/2018 3 Series is a completely different car to a 2019/2020 3 Series. The later version is much better and I would recommend you find one of these if possible - though your budget will limit you to the lower power engine options. I think all of the engines are good in the newer 3 series and the standard specification is good across the range, as well. You will likely find a lot of plug-in hybrid versions at this price - these will mostly be former company cars. As a used purchase of around £20k I don't think the plug in hybrid version is worth going for.

Do you have any examples of cars you've seen?

Thank you so much for your advice, it's really helpful. Yes, here are a few examples of what we are looking at:

320d M Sport Shadow Edition

320i M Sport Shadow Edition

330d M Sport

Are these all good motors?

[TW]Fox · 31 Oct 2023 at 12:32

Oh, you're looking at Estates. These were replaced a little later than the saloon, so therefore some of the 2019 cars, such as all 3 of those, are the previous version not the newer car.

Personally I think this is a lot of money to spend on that version of the 3 Series. It's a car that was first released in 2011 and was very much at the end of its production life by 2019 - it had already been replaced as a saloon at that point.

The 3 litre diesel is the best engine of those three and if you absolutely want that version, it's the engine I'd have to make it worth it. I had the same engine in my 5 Series for 7 years and it was great - smooth, efficient and quick.

You might want to consider a 5 Series actually if you want an estate - I think you'll get a much better car for your budget than you would with a 3 Series. The 5 Series was replaced a bit earlier than the 3 Series, so all 2017 onwards cars will be the newer version.

Cadder · 31 Oct 2023 at 12:47

Thanks Fox! Much appreciated! We'd much prefer something with the boot space, which is why we originally (a few pages back) were looking at 4 series GC. Then we moved on to estates. The saloons just don't seem to have the ability to carry large items. I know it's a different car but our old Corsa runabout could fit more in the boot than our A4 saloon, mainly due to the size of the boot opening.

Anyway, back on track, are these cars more along the lines of what you would recommend?

520d Estate - M Sport

520d Saloon

MrRockliffe · 31 Oct 2023 at 12:55

5 series estate is peak family car.

Diesel will be more economical, but trade off is that it’s a diesel - so if you’re doing shorter journeys it may be worth going petrol.

Then it just depends on the equipment you want.

ahenners · 31 Oct 2023 at 20:53

We have a 5 series touring and it's fantastic, a far better option if your budget won't stretch to the newer G model 3 series.

wingman · 31 Oct 2023 at 21:11

After owning BMWs on and off (mostly on) for 12 years, I now find myself without one!

My latest, bought as an interim car before getting something a bit more modern, was an E92 330i over 4 years ago. A mix of lockdowns, WFH, and an insane uptick in car prices, I ended up continuing to keep the old girl running. I sold it last week, longest I've ever owned or likely to own a car again, quite emotional for reasons I won't get onto here, but without the space I couldn't justify keeping it.

However, I'm now in a company car (not BMW, boo!), I'll keep popping my head in this thread from time to time, thanks for having me and for all the advice over the years all!

A few rubbish pics from over my time with BMWs, never been able to shoot cars very well, and there's a couple missing, my ownership goes E46 330i, E46 330Ci, F20 M135i, E39 530i, F21 M140i, E92 330i, and finally a E70 X5 30d which I kept for three weeks (you may remember the thread from last year about the lemon I bought).

-Ad- · 1 Nov 2023 at 05:57

HummuH1 said:
My Toronto Red X3M Comp needs to go now as I'll be back to towing a lot again next year. Will use the E46 M3 for a while, it's only done 650 miles in 4 years so needs some use.

The X3M Comp will be fondly remembered as one of the most bonkers car I've ever owned. Not sure how I'm gonna live without an S58 in my life, another awesome BMW engine.

Goood man, you have epic taste

Totally a bonkers car and very underrated. I just don't see the value in an M3 touring (unless you want the latest curved screen and to tell everyone you have a touring), as the X3M has the same engine and is great fun........ all at less than half the cost.

Nearly managed to get an X5 45e from an approved dealer at under trade price the other week, but we missed out as we only paid the £100 reservation fee rather than the £1k deposit that would have formed the contract (they jacked the price after realising).

Still kicking ourselves on that one.

[TW]Fox · 1 Nov 2023 at 09:18

-Ad- said:
Totally a bonkers car and very underrated. I just don't see the value in an M3 touring (unless you want the latest curved screen and to tell everyone you have a touring), as the X3M has the same engine and is great fun........ all at less than half the cost.

Less than half the cost?

It's actually £7000 more expensive new than the M3 Touring is. The only reason it is 'less than half the cost' is because you can find 2018 cars but the M3 Touring was only released this year. This is an invalid comparison really, nobody is surprised that older cars cost less than brand new cars.

I have not really enjoyed any X3 I've driven - though none of these have been the M power version I'd imagine the difference between an M Sport X3 and an M Sport 3 Series will be similar to the difference between the M Power versions as they relate to things like the extra weight and driving position. The X3 is compromised - its taller, heavier and doesn't drive anything like as well as the saloon (or touring) on which it is based. I really don't see the point in very fast cars like the X3 because you can't hide the fact it's just a 3 Series with many of the things that make a 3 Series good removed for things like higher ground clearance, which is obviously the last thing you'd want in a performance car.

It is possible, likely actually, that many people don't really care that much about the dynamic disadvantages that the something like an X3 has. They may value the other things it does well (though one of these is comfort and practicality which I'd imagine putting it on M Suspension and making every service cost £1000 probably removes) - but why would people who don't care about the fact it feels like you might fall over at every tight turn want 600bhp?

If we compare both as new cars I cannot think of any real reason why you'd pick an X3 over an M3 Touring unless you often find yourself down difficult roads. In which case why do you want a 600bhp car anyway?

I would much rather have a normal X5 for similar money if we're discussing used cars as I think overall it'll simply be a much better car and won't be compromised by it's pointless need to have massive levels of performance in a straight line.

Mikey · 1 Nov 2023 at 09:27

Sorry for not doing a thread trawl, anyone fitted the M Performance suspension on the M2, getting fed up with the stock suspension.

Car is on 18s at the mo, set of 513m alloys due to tyre failure on the 437m. Sadly the ***** PSS on both sets, CSC7 is desire for the 19s. The 513m will prob get put back in the garage. Should ditch the winter setup too tbh.

MrRockliffe · 1 Nov 2023 at 12:17

Mikey said:
Sorry for not doing a thread trawl, anyone fitted the M Performance suspension on the M2, getting fed up with the stock suspension.

Car is on 18s at the mo, set of 513m alloys due to tyre failure on the 437m. Sadly the ***** PSS on both sets, CSC7 is desire for the 19s. The 513m will prob get put back in the garage. Should ditch the winter setup too tbh.

Any reason you want the performance suspension?

If you’re not fussed about warranty, speak to Kevin Bird at birds suspension. He’ll fit a much more capable system than the performance setup from BMW.

Mikey · 1 Nov 2023 at 12:21

MrRockliffe said:
Any reason you want the performance suspension?

If you’re not fussed about warranty, speak to Kevin Bird at birds suspension. He’ll fit a much more capable system than the performance setup from BMW.

Generally kept the car under extended warranty. I know Kevin and James Bird, used to camp near them at Le Mans and they did my previous E82 135i with the full conversion, that was a better B road car than my M2. Awesome with the LSD and suspension. The "lure" of owning an M car...

Did have a chat with Kevin a while back, but more of a how are things etc. My mates 130i was one of the original dev cars, but he's now in a 964 911

MrRockliffe · 1 Nov 2023 at 12:49

Mikey said:
Generally kept the car under extended warranty. I know Kevin and James Bird, used to camp near them at Le Mans and they did my previous E82 135i with the full conversion, that was a better B road car than my M2. Awesome with the LSD and suspension. The "lure" of owning an M car...

Did have a chat with Kevin a while back, but more of a how are things etc. My mates 130i was one of the original dev cars, but he's now in a 964 911

Have you got the stock M2? And did you have the N55 135i? If so, they're a pretty similar car in terms of engine.

Either way, I'm not surprised you're not finding the M2 as good on B roads if you've come from their full conversion. I don't think you'd be happy with the performance suspension if you've already owned a car with their custom setup.

Chat to Kevin about it though and see what he recommends

I'm due to head up to him this weekend.

Mikey · 1 Nov 2023 at 12:55

Yup, a white N55 manual 135i that they did the quaife for me in 2018 as I already had the suspension. I moved to the M2 in Jan 19. If you look on their Instagram/Facebook it was the one we stickered up for Le Mans that year lol.

Even my local BMW dealers openly said it's the best 135i they'd had by a mile and then I sold it

hey ho. If I'd kept it, I'd be £22k better off too.

I might give him a shout. Equally bored of the M2 as I just daily it, thinking time. TBH should have flipped it in 2021 as dealer offered me more than I paid for it and I still had my 3rd car then.

I may also give gravity center a shout, spoke to Chris there earlier in the year and I know friends have used them re Porsche. Turns out I had a beer with him at Bicester in Jan lol

Birds - BMW Performance Tuning - NEWS: This 135i is ready for Le Mans, and so are we! Birds will be closed tomorrow (Friday 15th June) for the Le Mans weekend, but we will be back and ready for all enquiries on Monday. Have a good weekend! —————————

NEWS: This 135i is ready for Le Mans, and so are we! Birds will be closed tomorrow (Friday 15th June) for the Le Mans weekend, but we will be back and ready for all enquiries on Monday. Have a good...

www.facebook.com

MrRockliffe · 1 Nov 2023 at 13:18

Mikey said:
Yup, a white N55 manual 135i that they did the quaife for me in 2018 as I already had the suspension. I moved to the M2 in Jan 19. If you look on their Instagram/Facebook it was the one we stickered up for Le Mans that year lol.

Even my local BMW dealers openly said it's the best 135i they'd had by a mile and then I sold it hey ho. If I'd kept it, I'd be £22k better off too.

I might give him a shout. Equally bored of the M2 as I just daily it, thinking time. TBH should have flipped it in 2021 as dealer offered me more than I paid for it and I still had my 3rd car then.

Birds - BMW Performance Tuning - NEWS: This 135i is ready for Le Mans, and so are we! Birds will be closed tomorrow (Friday 15th June) for the Le Mans weekend, but we will be back and ready for all enquiries on Monday. Have a good weekend! —————————

NEWS: This 135i is ready for Le Mans, and so are we! Birds will be closed tomorrow (Friday 15th June) for the Le Mans weekend, but we will be back and ready for all enquiries on Monday. Have a good...

www.facebook.com

Interesting to hear your thoughts. I’m in a manual 135i with the N55 and have considered the M2.

Where abouts on the south coast are you? Would be great to meet up to compare cars back to back.

-Ad- · 2 Nov 2023 at 20:16

[TW]Fox said:
Less than half the cost?

It's actually £7000 more expensive new than the M3 Touring is. The only reason it is 'less than half the cost' is because you can find 2018 cars but the M3 Touring was only released this year. This is an invalid comparison really, nobody is surprised that older cars cost less than brand new cars.

I have not really enjoyed any X3 I've driven - though none of these have been the M power version I'd imagine the difference between an M Sport X3 and an M Sport 3 Series will be similar to the difference between the M Power versions as they relate to things like the extra weight and driving position. The X3 is compromised - its taller, heavier and doesn't drive anything like as well as the saloon (or touring) on which it is based. I really don't see the point in very fast cars like the X3 because you can't hide the fact it's just a 3 Series with many of the things that make a 3 Series good removed for things like higher ground clearance, which is obviously the last thing you'd want in a performance car.

It is possible, likely actually, that many people don't really care that much about the dynamic disadvantages that the something like an X3 has. They may value the other things it does well (though one of these is comfort and practicality which I'd imagine putting it on M Suspension and making every service cost £1000 probably removes) - but why would people who don't care about the fact it feels like you might fall over at every tight turn want 600bhp?

If we compare both as new cars I cannot think of any real reason why you'd pick an X3 over an M3 Touring unless you often find yourself down difficult roads. In which case why do you want a 600bhp car anyway?

I would much rather have a normal X5 for similar money if we're discussing used cars as I think overall it'll simply be a much better car and won't be compromised by it's pointless need to have massive levels of performance in a straight line.

I was comparing apples to oranges, when the M3 Touring came out. At least they've come down to a more sensible price now, but are still a chunk more than similar X3M. Although the X3M in the latest LCI doesn't have the curved monitor and lack of buttons, I see that as a positive. Plus it has the S58 and drives incredibly well for what it is, so I don't see the value in the M3 Touring, other than wanting to be cool, in-fashion and against an SUV "bcos".

but why would people who don't care about the fact it feels like you might fall over at every tight turn want 600bhp?

So you've clearly not driven an X3M, if you had you'd know it doesn't drive like a standard X3 in the slightest or "falls over" in the corners.

I would much rather have a normal X5 for similar money if we're discussing used cars as I think overall it'll simply be a much better car and won't be compromised by it's pointless need to have massive levels of performance in a straight line.

Now an X5 on air suspension drives like a floating sofa in comparison. The electric lifeless steering and plush ride makes it quite the disconnected drive and combined with the size of the thing, make it less than fun down a country road. An M50d is improved though on the standard dampers/springs and quite the weapon that humilates most things on the road..... Ah fond memories

Still eyeing up a 45e as it is a lovely general cruiser and perfect for most short journeys in and around home.

thewanted · 5 Nov 2023 at 09:14

Does anyone know what the difference is between these two bottles of BMW screen wash? Both are 5L with antifreeze.

https://amzn.eu/d/axHD26F

Genuine BMW Car Care 5Ltr Screen Wash Concentrate with Antifreeze 83125B5ED66 | eBay

Genuine BMW, 5 Litre Windscreen washer fluid concentrate with antifreeze. Prevents freezing of the windscreen washer systems and ensures clean front and rear windows with high quality cleaning agents.

www.ebay.co.uk

muon · 5 Nov 2023 at 12:17

thewanted said:
Does anyone know what the difference is between these two bottles of BMW screen wash? Both are 5L with antifreeze.

https://amzn.eu/d/axHD26F

Genuine BMW Car Care 5Ltr Screen Wash Concentrate with Antifreeze 83125B5ED66 | eBay

Genuine BMW, 5 Litre Windscreen washer fluid concentrate with antifreeze. Prevents freezing of the windscreen washer systems and ensures clean front and rear windows with high quality cleaning agents.

www.ebay.co.uk

I doubt anything beyond a SKU update (possibly new supplier).

BMW ebay also have the other one listed.

Pardon our interruption...

Wouldn't be surprised if what you get from Listers is the one with the higher number. Probably just a matter of old vs new stock.

Checking some of my old 5l containers, they end 167.