Boeing 777 shot down

MoRT489 said:
Responsibility and fault are two separate things.
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Yeah looking at how I've worded it fair point.

I still fail to see how it can be Ukraines responsibility if another party shoots down an aircraft during a conflict. There must be loads of airliners still crossing Ukraine

e: although at this stage 'shot down' is still assumed, however likely.

RIP to those lost either way
 
Boycey0211 said:
Yeah looking at how I've worded it fair point.

I still fail to see how it can be Ukraines responsibility if another party shoots down an aircraft during a conflict. There must be loads of airliners still crossing Ukraine

e: although at this stage 'shot down' is still assumed, however likely.

RIP to those lost either way
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Guess its the same as when Israel hold Hamas responsible for what ever other groups do when operating on their territory.
 
This is going to get lost in this thread, but this NOTAM (notice to airmen) was published at 00z on 17JUL14 (aka this morning, 10 hours before departure of MH17).

URRV V6158/14 17JUL0000-31AUG2359 EST DUE TO COMBAT ACTIONS ON THE TERRITORY OF THE UKRAINE NEAR THE STATE BORDER WITH THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION AND THE FACTS OF FRNG FM THE TERRITORY OF THE UKRAINE TOWARDS THE TERRITORY OF RUSSIAN FEDERATION, TO ENSURE INTL FLT SAFETY, ATS RTE SEGMENTS CLSD AS FLW: A100 MIMRA - ROSTOV-NA-DONU VOR/DME (RND), B145 KANON - ASMIL, G247 MIMRA - BAGAYEVSKIY NDB (BA), A87 TAMAK - SARNA

The thing to note there is the last airways segment, A87 between TAMAK - SARNA. MH17's flight plan filed directly over this segment of airway.

-N0490F310 ARNEM UL620 SUVOX UZ713 OSN UL980 MOBSA DCT POVEL DCT SUI L980 UTOLU/N0490F330 L980 LDZ M70 BEMBI L980 PEKIT/N0480F350 L980 B449 RANAH L750 ZB G201 BI DCT MURLI DCT TIGER/N0490F370 L333 KKJ L759 PUT R325 VIH A464 DAKUS DCT

TAMAK/N0480F350 A87 TIROM/N0490F350 A87 MAMED

Essentially A87 is an airway, and it was supposed to not to be flown on between these two waypoints, which was about a 100 mile segment.

Image of what I am talking about. (not taking credit for image)

So in summary, NOTAM was issue for closed airway (for flight safety reason). Malaysia 17 was planned to fly over it anyway, filed flight plan and took off after this NOTAM went effective. Per the flight plan, the airplane departed around 1000 UTC on the 17th, the NOTAM went effective on 0000 UTC on the 17th.

Edit: Here is the full NOTAM that states A87 was closed below 32,000ft, and MH17 was above 32,000ft (33,000ft apparently, although they were filed to be at 35,000ft over TAMAK) when they approached the Ukraine/Russian border.

V6158/14 - DUE TO COMBAT ACTIONS ON THE TERRITORY OF THE UKRAINE NEAR THE STATE BORDER WITH THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION AND THE FACTS OF FIRING FROM THE TERRITORY OF THE UKRAINE TOWARDS THE TERRITORY OF RUSSIAN FEDERATION, TO ENSURE INTL FLT SAFETY, ATS RTE SEGMENTS CLSD AS FLW: A100 MIMRA - ROSTOV-NA-DONU VOR/DME (RND) , B145 KANON - ASMIL, G247 MIMRA - BAGAYEVSKIY NDB (BA), A87 TAMAK - SARNA, A102 PENEG - NALEM, A225 GUKOL - ODETA, A712 TAMAK - SAMBEK NDB (SB), B493 FASAD - ROSTOV-NA-DONU VOR/DME (RND), B947 TAMAK - ROSTOV-NA-DONU VOR/DME (RND), G118 LATRI - BAGAYEVSKIY NDB (BA), G534 MIMRA - TOROS, G904 FASAD - SUTAG, R114 BAGAYEVSKIY NDB (BA)-NALEM. SFC - FL320. DEP FM/ARR TO ROSTOV-NA-DONU AD TO/FM MOSCOW FIR CARRIED OUT ALONG ATS RTE G128 KONSTANTINOVSK NDB (KA) - MOROZOVSK VOR/DME (MOR) AND R11 MOROZOVSK VOR/DME (MOR) - BUTRI ON ASSIGNED FL. DEP FM ROSTOV-NA-DONU AD TO DNEPROPETROVSK FIR CARRIED OUT ALONG ATS RTE A102 KONSTANTINOVSK NDB (KA) - NALEM ON FL340 AND ABOVE. ARR TO ROSTOV-NA-DONU AD FM DNEPROPETROVSK FIR CARRIED OUT ALONG ATS RTE A712 TAMAK - SAMBEK NDB (SB) THEN DCT KONSTANTINOVSK NDB (KA) ON FL330 AND ABOVE. SFC - FL530, 17 JUL 00:00 2014 UNTIL 31 AUG 23:59 2014 ESTIMATED. CREATED: 16 JUL 17:08 2014
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http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/2aykqv/malaysian_plane_going_from_amsterdam_to_kuala/
 
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