Boeing 777 shot down

I was just randomly reading up on charging electronic devices before flying... Stumbled across this article and one of the quotes were

"But it's no big deal. No one likes a lot of hassle when they travel, but I would rather turn on my phone and laptop for security than be blown up in the sky."
Click to expand...

:(
 
If a warning was issued to airlines and MA opted to ignore this, then I find it very odd. Aero structures and systems are designed to the nth degree and are packed with redundant systems such that the failure of one system can be recovered using at least one other. Safety critical systems on aircraft can have 4 or more redundant failure paths. They are designed using probabilistic safety risk assessment methods to ensure that the probability of a fatality or serious incident is in the order of 1x10^-6.

If the structure or system is designed to such stringent criteria, then to make the decision to fly in an area designated as dangerous seems to fly in the face of that whole safety philosophy (no pun intended). The catastrophic effect of being targeted is so severe that the mere suggestion of an increase in probability of it occurring suggests that the risk should have been removed by avoiding the region. Someone dropped a clanger at MA, if indeed a warning was issued.
 
Devlish said:
Yeah not doing anything is working out real well so far.
Click to expand...

It's difficult. The people responsible will probably flee to Russia where they will not be extradited and then we're at a stalemate. Unless Russia gets rid of them as they have become a major political liability. Suicide is a good one given the circumstances.
 
Just thought, Amsterdam to KL is a massive backpacker route, so many of those killed could be young people jetting off to travel the world. Very sad. I wouldn't be surprised if a large percentage were 18-25.
 
AndyT said:
If a warning was issued to airlines and MA opted to ignore this, then I find it very odd. Aero structures and systems are designed to the nth degree and are packed with redundant systems such that the failure of one system can be recovered using at least one other. Safety critical systems on aircraft can have 4 or more redundant failure paths. They are designed using probabilistic safety risk assessment methods to ensure that the probability of a fatality or serious incident is in the order of 1x10^-6.

If the structure or system is designed to such stringent criteria, then to make the decision to fly in an area designated as dangerous seems to fly in the face of that whole safety philosophy (no pun intended). The catastrophic effect of being targeted is so severe that the mere suggestion of an increase in probability of it occurring suggests that the risk should have been removed by avoiding the region. Someone dropped a clanger at MA, if indeed a warning was issued.
Click to expand...

You can look at it as logically as you want, I think it simply comes down to that the current intelligence suggested that they didnt have weapons capable of striking at that altitude, plus they could have never expected them to be stupid enough to target civilian airlines, there were a lot of risks and assumptions made by the airlines, but it wasnt just MA taking those risks, they just happened to be at the wrong piece of airspace at the wrong time.
 
AndyT said:
Just thought, Amsterdam to KL is a massive backpacker route, so many of those killed could be young people jetting off to travel the world. Very sad. I wouldn't be surprised if a large percentage were 18-25.
Click to expand...

A lot of people are going/coming back to and from graduations.
 
One report stating that two Ukraine fighter jets were escorting the plane, coming out of spanish flight control on twitter. Not sure how credible, not worth posting due to lack of evidence.

Then a month a go some anti-russian predicted a similar event would lead to nato involvement. Very weird.

https://translate.google.com/transl...er.com/vesti_kpss/statuses/478926313831792640

russian president (putin) accused ukraine of doing it

https://translate.googleusercontent...D0%B5)&usg=ALkJrhjFAXHrezqbIq8lNiS5huAk-U_HXA

https://translate.googleusercontent.../46243&usg=ALkJrhirUIuhm-reR4wLHaya8maT6fly-Q
 
Last edited:
Can the Crackpot conspiracy theorists please **** off to another thread and keep this thread factual please, you guys are like leaches, the slightest whiff of anything and you guys just cling on to it.
 
Zbornak said:
It's difficult. The people responsible will probably flee to Russia where they will not be extradited and then we're at a stalemate. Unless Russia gets rid of them as they have become a major political liability. Suicide is a good one given the circumstances.
Click to expand...

I think that's the best solution, let Russia take those who want to be Russian. Russia bears a lot of responsibility in having supplied the men and materiel to get the separatists to this stage, to the point they own and operate standing army type equipment, only without the support intel/code of conduct necessary to make it effective. ^&*( like this happens as a result. Increased serious sanctions at the very least I would have thought.
 
Not sure if these have been posted..

DNR capture BUK systems: https://translate.google.com/transl...tar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1287030

Deleted DNR Tweet: http://www.freetranslation.com/en/t...witter.com/dnrpress/status/483248037629018112

Google translation of DNR fanpage on VK.cm (the 'rebel leader' page):

17.07.2014 17:50 (MSK) Message from the militia.

"In the area Torrez just downed plane An-26, lying somewhere in the mine" Progress. "
Also warned - do not fly in "our sky."
And here is the confirmation of the next video "ptichkopada."
Bird fell for waste heap, the residential sector is not caught. Civilians are not injured.

And also have information about the second downed aircraft, like the Su. "
Click to expand...
 
steve45 said:
You can look at it as logically as you want, I think it simply comes down to that the current intelligence suggested that they didnt have weapons capable of striking at that altitude, plus they could have never expected them to be stupid enough to target civilian airlines, there were a lot of risks and assumptions made by the airlines, but it wasnt just MA taking those risks, they just happened to be at the wrong piece of airspace at the wrong time.
Click to expand...

The point is that the severity of the outcome is so catastrophic that the probability is almost irrelevant if it can easily be avoided. A simple risk matrix shows this.

Take a look at this simple risk matrix for example - anything dark grey or black is deemed unacceptable, even in the most extreme circumstances.

http://www.decd.sa.gov.au/docs/documents/1/RiskAssessmentMatrix.doc

It should be a no brainer for the aero industry, but I suppose on hindsight that is all well and good.
 
anything I don't mind said:
http://i.imgur.com/uTh8ae2.png

Either way some side needs to take responsibility or all hell going to break loose.
Click to expand...

I know that major airlines have been staying clear of this air corridor but it has still been travelled by lesser airlines like MA all the time right? This isn't the first plane to fly that exact route since the Ukrainians abandoned their SAM base 2.5 weeks ago?

If they left everything on auto when they ran...
 
anything I don't mind said:
One report stating that two Ukraine fighter jets were escorting the plane, coming out of spanish flight control on twitter. Not sure how credible, not worth posting due to lack of evidence.

Then a month a go some anti-russian predicted a similar event would lead to nato involvement. Very weird.

https://translate.google.com/transl...er.com/vesti_kpss/statuses/478926313831792640

russian president (putin) accused ukraine of doing it

https://translate.googleusercontent...D0%B5)&usg=ALkJrhjFAXHrezqbIq8lNiS5huAk-U_HXA

https://translate.googleusercontent.../46243&usg=ALkJrhirUIuhm-reR4wLHaya8maT6fly-Q
Click to expand...

Not weird at all. More of the same rubbish that will now be flooding the net, posted by Putin stooges. However in this case its too late for them. Their big mistake was to get all cocky and post on a russian forum that they had shot down a plane they thought was ukranian military, then panicking and scrubbing everything (like you can make stuff disappear on the internet). They've already implicated themselves heavily.
 
ubersonic said:
I know that major airlines have been staying clear of this air corridor but it has still been travelled by lesser airlines like MA all the time right? This isn't the first plane to fly that exact route since the Ukrainians abandoned their SAM base 2.5 weeks ago?

If they left everything on auto when they ran...
Click to expand...

Sorry but does that tweet have any credibility? [see earlier post]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom