ukraine might as well do what israel are doing now it's not like russia is likely to do anything after that passenger jet went down
Boeing 777 shot down
- Thread starter Glaucus
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ukraine might as well do what israel are doing now it's not like russia is likely to do anything after that passenger jet went down
I think a full picture is beginning to take shape. The rebels received complex weaponry and qualified operators to handle them from Russia. It is not clear if a Russian Buk was used for the attack but it's likely considering the pictures showing a Buk exiting Ukraine. It is also likely that Russian citizens, the qualified operators, were the ones that "pulled the trigger", under the orders of the rebel leader Igor Bezler (another Russian citizen), also known as "Bes" ("Demon").
In conclusion, it is extremely unlikely that the ones who carried out the attack or the one who ordered it will be prosecuted as they are Russian citizens. Sooner or later, the Russians will accept the mountain of evidence that's building against the rebels and they will blame them, along with the rest of the world but only after most of the Russians who have been fighting in the conflict are back home safe and sound.
Putin didn't order the attack, this tragedy probably ruined any plans he had for Eastern Ukraine. However, there's plenty of blood on his hands and if the EU and the US don't take drastic measures now, that will be a signal for him that he can keep pushing and testing the boundaries of what's unacceptable.
In conclusion, it is extremely unlikely that the ones who carried out the attack or the one who ordered it will be prosecuted as they are Russian citizens. Sooner or later, the Russians will accept the mountain of evidence that's building against the rebels and they will blame them, along with the rest of the world but only after most of the Russians who have been fighting in the conflict are back home safe and sound.
Putin didn't order the attack, this tragedy probably ruined any plans he had for Eastern Ukraine. However, there's plenty of blood on his hands and if the EU and the US don't take drastic measures now, that will be a signal for him that he can keep pushing and testing the boundaries of what's unacceptable.
I wasn't questioning why anyone would want them, I was questioning why anyone would want to hide them, as like you say the only thing they could tell us is if the was a failure with the aircraft (not likely) in which case the only party that would care about hiding them would be Malaysian Airlines lol.
Doubtful but continue
Despite already possessing both? (they captured some in June and this is USSR era weaponry, like experts have said a lot of them were in the Soviet army so the will have been some of them trained to use a Buk, plus it only requires basic training operate anyway).
Playing devils advocate, all I have seen are pictures of a Buk somewhere sometime, and no pictures good enough to show Ukrainian/Russian markings.
The EU/US/Kiev have just as much blood on their hands as all parties perpetuated the situation that lead to this, I.E if Kiev hadn't violated the ceasefire back in June and attacked the rebels this would never have happened.
Lol, actually they completely ignored the MH17 crash as fans expected, classic Daily Fail...
Isn't WWE a children's play fighting drama? I don't think adults should care and the kids probably won't understand why it's distasteful if they think wrestling is real.
Well the only reasonable assumptions one can take is that the Pro-Russian Rebels think trying to hide evidence is a good idea, despite the fact that its fruitless at this stage as the eyes of the world are already on them. It then only incriminates them further.
There are recordings released by the Ukrainian Counter Intelligence in which the rebels discuss the arrival of the "gifts" and their operators from Russia. One of the recordings even identifies the group responsible and their leader - all Russians.
The rebels are saying they don't have such weapons. If they don't have that Buk and the Ukrainian military doesn't have it, there's only one other option: Russia. The Russians wouldn't have approved the border crossing if it weren't theirs.
Did you just say the EU, US and Kiev are responsible for this tragedy? How did these parties perpetuate anything? What were they supposed to do? "Oh, ok Russia, you took Crimeea, here's Eastern Ukraine too while you're at it, cheerio ol' chap!". Quite faulty logic here, you may want to put more thought into your argument. The Dutch are in the EU, why don't you write the parents a letter explaining how they are responsible for their kids' deaths?
Back in the sane world, it's obvious for anyone with half a brain that there are three responsible "parties" here:
- the ones who pulled the trigger - rebel operators
- the one who gave the order - rebel leader
- the ones who support the rebels - the Russian leadership
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And they (Ukraine) get to complain that the rebels are holding back the international accident investigators... The rebels say they are allowing them in, and haven't actually stopped then (different to the observers) but the investigators haven't come due to security fears and it being an active war zone.
I'd agree with most of that but I would add that we don't know whether the hardware and men were authorised by the Russian government or are due to pro seperatist sympathies by someone in charge of a military base/military warehouse.
I'd also question your phrase "under the orders of". Are you suggesting that the leader told them to fire specifically or just to shoot Ukrainian planes with it? The latter sounds reasonable but doesn't make him to blame for this, shooting down opposition planes in a war zone is perfectly acceptable... We also have to remember that the rebels thought the area was a no fly zone for civilian aircraft, according to both the recordings released by the Ukrainian government and by statements from the rebels themselves.
Or one of them is lying...
No I said they were also to blame, there's an old saying "guns don't kill people, people do" and many people made decisions that lead to this event.
Would this have happened if somebody hadn't launched a missile? - No
Would this have happened if MA hadn't routed a flight over a war zone to save money? - No
Would this have happened if Ukraine hadn't kept it's airspace open during a civil war in order to make money? - No
Was that wise considering they lost control of Buks to separatists back in June and have been bombing them? - No
Would this have happened if Kiev hadn't violated the ceasefire months ago and resumed actions against the east? - No
Would this have happened if Russia and the EU hadn't been playing chess with Ukraine - No
Many many hands have blood on them not just the one that pushed a button.
Any source to this?
Thanks for the RT news feed. Other 'news' from there:
- Putin's plane was targetted
- Flight MH17 was replaced by the missing flight MH370
- Some of the bodies had been dead for days when the plane crashed
- Some of the passports looked brand new, which suggested they were placed after the crash
- the rebels had no weapons capable of taking down the plane.
The list continues to grow daily..
Yeah the idea that the was a Ukrainian jet nearby which could have shot the airliner down is just stupid, no idea why they would say that nonsense. If they wanted a false flag (I don't believe they did ofc, just saying if they did) then MH17 was in range of two of their S200 batteries and three Buks, why send a plane lol.
You forgot "the bodies were drained of blood"
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you are assuming that the plane exploded when it was hit
it may have just lost control after the hit and flew into the ground
the 9km area of wreckage doesnt mean the plane blew up - just that some parts (perhaps the tail) are scattered across that area
the main bulk seems to be in one field
AA missiles tend to act like a shotgun rather than a big explosive warhead - shredding the plane with big holes