Boeing 777 shot down

dowie said:
short of getting other countries to change their laws or banning foreign investment in the UK there isn't much we can do to change it
Click to expand...

I don't see what's unreasonable from preventing un-cooperative nations from investing in the UK? I think it would be done by now if it weren't for the fact that certain individuals based in said un-cooperative nations made significant donations to the political parties in the UK.

Rroff said:
While sanctions are one thing, unless we (or they) formerly declare war or are directly and criminally linked to an atrocity I don't think going after their assets or the assets of those linked to them in this country is at all right personally.
Click to expand...

I don't see the problem tbh. Do you think Georgian England would have let Napoleon Bonaparte own a house in Whitehall?
 
scorza said:
I don't see what's unreasonable from preventing un-cooperative nations from investing in the UK? I think it would be done by now if it weren't for the fact that certain individuals based in said un-cooperative nations made significant donations to the political parties in the UK.
Click to expand...

its not about being uncooperative... what if someone hires a Bermudan law firm to act as nominee owners of a cayman company that in turn owns an entity in Delaware that owns some property in the UK

do we ban US companies from investing in the UK? Do we demand that all nations change their legal systems and also implement some other laws we specify and otherwise deem them 'uncooperative'... The UK isn't that big a deal any more and realistically unless we ban foreign investment there isn't much you can do about foreign companies owning property over here

all so you can stop some Russian guy you don't like from owning a house?
 
I'm not sure anything is going to happen generically against Russians. More likely to see those with strong links to Putin being targetted. I'm sure that is the intention, proving the links is another matter.
 
dowie said:
its not about being uncooperative... what if someone hires a Bermudan law firm to act as nominee owners of a cayman company that in turn owns an entity in Delaware that owns some property in the UK

do we ban US companies from investing in the UK? Do we demand that all nations change their legal systems and also implement some other laws we specify and otherwise deem them 'uncooperative'... The UK isn't that big a deal any more and realistically unless we ban foreign investment there isn't much you can do about foreign companies owning property over here
Click to expand...

All I'd demand is that anyone investing in the UK follows UK law, which could easily be changed to stop the above scenario.

dowie said:
all so you can stop some Russian guy you don't like from owning a house?
Click to expand...

Of course we can, we're a sovereign nation and can decide who and who can't come into the country or who can own assets in this country.
 
scorza said:
All I'd demand is that anyone investing in the UK follows UK law, which could easily be changed to stop the above scenario.
Click to expand...

but it really can't be changed to accommodate what you want unless you fancy practically stopping foreign investment into the UK

plenty of companies have many entities and many companies have multiple owners, companies owning companies etc..etc.. the idea that someone might own something that might own something that has an interest in something etc.. that we don't like is something you'll have to deal with

yes if we can trace that some asset is essentially being held on behalf of X evil dictator subject to sanctions then sure it can be seized - but the idea that we can prevent the ownership of said asset in the first place is ludicrous - assets owned by foreign companies can essentially change hands overseas without anyone in the UK being informed as the company that owns the company that owns the asset can change hands etc.. unless we are able to monitor the ownership of all companies, trusts in all countries and somehow get data on all nominee owners then its not going to happen... its pretty much impossible
 
Last edited:
scorza said:
I don't see what's unreasonable from preventing un-cooperative nations from investing in the UK? I think it would be done by now if it weren't for the fact that certain individuals based in said un-cooperative nations made significant donations to the political parties in the UK.



I don't see the problem tbh. Do you think Georgian England would have let Napoleon Bonaparte own a house in Whitehall?
Click to expand...

There's your problem.
You can't see the problem you are creating.
Well done on spotting it.

You can't seek to ignore the law in respect to individuals, especially rich ones, they will take you to your own courts, or the european ones, beat you and cost you lots of money.

Just like Mr Balls did by ignoring employment law in your other thread.
If you introduce a measure, you make it watertight, and then you enforce it. You don't simply say 'no house here for vlad daughter' on the basis of your idiotic whim.
 
scorza said:
I don't see what's unreasonable from preventing un-cooperative nations from investing in the UK? I think it would be done by now if it weren't for the fact that certain individuals based in said un-cooperative nations made significant donations to the political parties in the UK.



I don't see the problem tbh. Do you think Georgian England would have let Napoleon Bonaparte own a house in Whitehall?
Click to expand...

Not really as the two countries were in a state of war in regards to the other which we currently aren't with Russia but also we don't live in Georgian England and it would be nice if the world could globally move on from that kind of primitive backwards mentalities.
 
dowie said:
but it really can't be changed to accommodate what you want unless you fancy practically stopping foreign investment into the UK

plenty of companies have many entities and many companies have multiple owners, companies owning companies etc..etc.. the idea that someone might own something that might own something that has an interest in something etc.. that we don't like is something you'll have to deal with

yes if we can trace that some asset is essentially being held on behalf of X evil dictator subject to sanctions then sure it can be seized - but the idea that we can prevent the ownership of said asset in the first place is ludicrous - assets owned by foreign companies can essentially change hands overseas without anyone in the UK being informed as the company that owns the company that owns the asset can change hands etc.. unless we are able to monitor the ownership of all companies, trusts in all countries and somehow get data on all nominee owners then its not going to happen... its pretty much impossible
Click to expand...

None of this sounds like it's an insurmountable problem. Once again the ultra-liberal agenda is proving detrimental to our nation's security.
 
scorza said:
None of this sounds like it's an insurmountable problem. Once again the ultra-liberal agenda is proving detrimental to our nation's security.
Click to expand...

It's not a question of security and you're arbitrarily, or worse yet on purpose, ignoring that politics is about relationships. Would you stamp on Putin's foot when you go into a meeting with him? Would you punch his daughter, would you arbitrarily repossess his legally held property? Why would you upset and act like a petty child over something that doesn't effect national security in the slightest.

You do know Russia has an embassy in England, as does North Korea.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...326104/London_Diplomatic_List_-_July_2014.pdf

So they can maintain an embassy, which encompasses multiple buildings, a military advisor office, what about 50 diplomats, hundreds of staff(many of whom will be spies, just like many of our staff in Russia will be also).... but having a personal home is compromising national security somehow?

Putin probably owns buildings in America and the UK/USA(in terms of government owned buildings used for the current political leaders) almost certainly own places in Russia as well.

The very idea we should deny them the ability to buy a house is basically childish and it's exactly the opposite of how this country should behave in regards to potential enemies. Diplomatic relationships prevent wars more often than they start them, and cutting them off by building resentment between the UK and a superpower.... thank **** you aren't in politics.


UK/USA are amongst the most uncooperative nations around, who block things like the UN trying to stop Israel being ****'s. They also ignore the UN when they want to start illegal wars for monetary gains. UK/USA foreign policy has continued to be the most aggressive and detrimental of anyone else around.
 
scorza said:
Once again basic common sense is proving detrimental to my idea of what should be our nation's security.
Click to expand...

Fixed for you, although probably a bit harsh TBH as your idea sounds like a good idea in isolation but the world doesn't work this way, regardless of how we'd want it to.
 
scorza said:
None of this sounds like it's an insurmountable problem. Once again the ultra-liberal agenda is proving detrimental to our nation's security.
Click to expand...

I think stopping foreign investment is a rather large problem... in comparison confiscating the home of someone we don't like much seems fairly minor
 
drunkenmaster said:
UK/USA are amongst the most uncooperative nations around, who block things like the UN trying to stop Israel being ****'s. They also ignore the UN when they want to start illegal wars for monetary gains. UK/USA foreign policy has continued to be the most aggressive and detrimental of anyone else around.
Click to expand...

UK/USA (governments/media) are Israel's *******.

fully stay out swear words.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
delta0 said:
I'm not sure anything is going to happen generically against Russians. More likely to see those with strong links to Putin being targetted. I'm sure that is the intention, proving the links is another matter.
Click to expand...

So blackmailing Putin then?

Hoping sanctioning people that know him will force them to try and persuade Putin to back of...
 
dowie said:
but it really can't be changed to accommodate what you want unless you fancy practically stopping foreign investment into the UK
Click to expand...

Some measures were brought in last year to make corporate ownership of residential property less attractive - see this article which summarises the tax situation if you're interested http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...to-escape-the-offshore-property-tax-trap.html

Obviously the annual charges are peanuts for oligarchs but 15% stamp duty on the initial purchase will certainly reduce the attractiveness of property as an investment.
 
jesusismyairbag said:
this was pretty shocking, seeing those nonce reporters rifling through their belongings infuriated me. savage *****.
Click to expand...

My g/f comes from Ukraine, she told me when I met 4 years ago that the people who live in the eastern part of Ukraine have had little in the way of education and have been exposed to pro Russian propaganda for years. So behaviour like this while revolting isn't surprising.
 
Freddie1980 said:
My g/f comes from Ukraine, she told me when I met 4 years ago that the people who live in the eastern part of Ukraine have had little in the way of education and have been exposed to pro Russian propaganda for years. So behaviour like this while revolting isn't surprising.
Click to expand...

He was talking about the reporters (like the Sky News reporter) who rifled through the bags on the scene.

And if education and pro-western propaganda is what leads to mass murder perpetrated upon the inhabitants of the east, then people are better off without it. But the truth is there are good and bad people on either side.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom