Brazilian Grand Prix 2012, São Paulo - Race 20/20

[smr]

Slow Pit Stops

Jenson Button (China) 1
Lewis Hamilton (Malaysia) (Bahrain) 2

Fuel Saving Team errors

Jenson Button (Australia) 1
Lewis Hamilton (Spain) 1

Car Faults

Jenson Button (Bahrain- Vibration) (Italy - Fuel Pressure) 2
Lewis Hamilton (Singapore - Gearbox) (Abu Dhabi - Fuel Pressure) 2

Collisions - Other Driver's Fault

Jenson Button (Monaco - hit by Kova) (Korea - hit by KK) 2
Lewis Hamilton (Belgium - hit by Grosjean) 1

Collisions - Driver's Fault

Lewis Hamilton (Spain - hits Maldo) (Brazil - hits Hulk) 2

Punctures - Not the Driver's Fault

Lewis Hamilton (Germany) 1

Strategic Errors

Jenson Button (Hungary - 3 stop) 1

Total Handicaps

Jenson Button 7
Lewis Hamilton 7

Total Driver Errors

Jenson Button 0
Lewis Hamilton 2

 

[ChrisD.]

smr, the Maldonado incident was not Hamilton's fault, neither was was the incident in Brazil.

 

[smr]

smr, the Maldonado incident was not Hamilton's fault, neither was was the incident in Brazil.

Even if they aren't it still leaves them handicapped by 7 each throughout the season... whilst all the Hamilton fan boys go on about how much the team have ******* Hamilton's season up.

To be fair to Lewis you could say the puncture wasn't his fault in Germany but it still makes their totals about the same, not the picture that some people want to paint of Lewis being hard done by Mclaren. Then again you could argue that as a driver he is supposed to drive around debris and that's part of being a skilled racing driver. Open for debate.

 

[ChrisD.]

Saying both incidents are his fault completely discredits your post.

Hamilton scored more points than Button over the whole season and had more go against him, deal with it.

 

[Yaayuh!]

He started the overtake on the green surely?

 

[ChrisD.]

He started the overtake on the green surely?

Yes but there was a clear yellow before passing the car, and 2 during passing.

 

[Nismo]

http://www1.skysports.com/formula1/video/12870/8282348

I can see it for myself.

I can't see the video here. I'm assuming it's the on-board showing what looks like STATIC yellow flag boards?

Both the FIA steward and Pat Fry from Ferrari said it was actually red/yellow for a slippery track, not yellows. Plus the fact that the Sauber pitted immediately would have negated any penalty if it was a yellow, based on past decisions. For all the FIA know, Vettel would have handed the place back.

There was certainly a marshal on the pit straight holding out a red/yellow striped board during the race, and in any case, don't the light boards FLASH for yellow no overtaking conditions?

 

[smr]

Saying both incidents are his fault completely discredits your post.

Hamilton scored more points than Button over the whole season and had more go against him, deal with it.

2 points and had how many go against him?

 

[ChrisD.]

Then again you could argue that as a driver he is supposed to drive around debris and that's part of being a skilled racing driver. Open for debate.

You're having a laugh?

 

[smr]

And to be honest Chris,

The Wiki doesn't exactly offer a glowing report of Lewis' race craft that weekend in the Collision with Maldonado. And I quote:

"Hamilton in second, in his attempts to hold off Räikkönen had pushed his tyres too much, and they started to wear towards the end of the race. Räikkönen patiently bided his time before passing Hamilton on lap 55 with two laps left, when Hamilton's tyres were worn out. Hamilton was now under attack from Maldonado, whose pace was strong enough for him to stay out of the reach of Schumacher and Webber. Maldonado attacked Hamilton at turn 1 on the penultimate lap, but some strong defensive driving by Hamilton meant that he kept the place for then despite his worn tyres. Maldonado tried again on the run down to turn 13 using DRS, with Hamilton taking the inside line and forcing Maldonado off the track, and as Maldonado tried to rejoin, he clipped the kerb for the next turn and hit Hamilton, forcing him into the wall and out of the race. Maldonado himself lost his front wing, and dropped back down the order."

Lewis again proving he's not the complete package - pushing where he and when he doesn't need to. Again.

And notice where it says "Raikkonen patiently" ... That's why Kimi finished the season above Lewis, smarter and in my opinion a better driver.

 

[ChrisD.]

I can't see the video here. I'm assuming it's the on-board showing what looks like STATIC yellow flag boards?

Both the FIA steward and Pat Fry from Ferrari said it was actually red/yellow for a slippery track, not yellows.

There was certainly a marshal on the pit straight holding out a red/yellow striped board during the race.

Watch the video then post. There is one single red/yellow before the overtake, followed by a green, then three yellows only throughout the overtake.

As for the FIA commenting, well, that's worth its weight in gold isn't it.

2 points and had how many go against him?

Hamilton had 5 DNF, Button had 2 yet Hamilton scored more points. Sure he was hard done by in a couple of pit stops, more so than Button from memory, but to have 3 more races where he didn't finish regardless of circumstances and still finished ahead speaks for itself.

 

[ChrisD.]

And to be honest Chris,

The Wiki doesn't exactly offer a glowing report of Lewis' race craft that weekend in the Collision with Maldonado. And I quote:

"Hamilton in second, in his attempts to hold off Räikkönen had pushed his tyres too much, and they started to wear towards the end of the race. Räikkönen patiently bided his time before passing Hamilton on lap 55 with two laps left, when Hamilton's tyres were worn out. Hamilton was now under attack from Maldonado, whose pace was strong enough for him to stay out of the reach of Schumacher and Webber. Maldonado attacked Hamilton at turn 1 on the penultimate lap, but some strong defensive driving by Hamilton meant that he kept the place for then despite his worn tyres. Maldonado tried again on the run down to turn 13 using DRS, with Hamilton taking the inside line and forcing Maldonado off the track, and as Maldonado tried to rejoin, he clipped the kerb for the next turn and hit Hamilton, forcing him into the wall and out of the race. Maldonado himself lost his front wing, and dropped back down the order."

Lewis again proving he's not the complete package - pushing where he and when he doesn't need to. Again.

Using Wikipedia, which is open to the public for editing to weight your argument. Well done. Did you expect Lewis to just let him past? He's a racing driver, of course not. Had Maldonado had some brains about him he'd have waited for a better opportunity rather than driving into another car like an oaf. Räikkönen did it exactly how Maldonado should have.

 

[Mr Men]

As a Ferrari fan I can say McLaren with Jenson as the lead driver really are less of a threat than they would be with Lewis, and Perez seems to have gone off the radar and might well be a massive mistake.

 

[smr]

Using Wikipedia, which is open to the public for editing to weight your argument. Well done. Did you expect Lewis to just let him past? He's a racing driver, of course not. Had Maldonado had some brains about him he'd have waited for a better opportunity rather than driving into another car like an oaf.

Even Coulthard (who I'm sure holds more credibility than you, I or Wiki said it was Lewis' fault).

 

[Nismo]

As for the FIA commenting, well, that's worth its weight in gold isn't it.

And Ferrari themselves? They didn't see anything wrong, and surely if there was even a hint that Vettel should have had a penalty, they would still be banging on about it now.

There was confusion at the time sure, but I think the lack of fuss afterwards from everyone speaks volumes that nothing was actually amiss.

 

[smr]

As a Ferrari fan I can say McLaren with Jenson as the lead driver really are less of a threat than they would be with Lewis, and Perez seems to have gone off the radar and might well be a massive mistake.

TBH I can see Massa out performing Alonso next year. That will be interesting. He's beaten him hand over fist the last few races, unsettling the Ferrari team in the process

 

[ChrisD.]

Even Coulthard (who I'm sure holds more credibility than you, I or Wiki said it was Lewis' fault).

Yet there are other drivers that say it was Maldonado's fault. It's open to interpretation, but your posts looks like a typical Button fanboy post, one who hates Hamilton. Simple fact is, this season, Hamilton finished fewer races and scored more points.

And Ferrari themselves? They didn't see anything wrong, and surely if there was even a hint that Vettel should have had a penalty, they would still be banging on about it now.

There was confusion at the time sure, but I think the lack of fuss afterwards from everyone speaks volumes that nothing was actually amiss.

Good point, however I can see it with my own eyes on the above video. It's clear as day. Then there's the fact Vettel took out Senna on lap 1.

 

[ChrisD.]

TBH I can see Massa out performing Alonso next year. That will be interesting. He's beaten him hand over fist the last few races, unsettling the Ferrari team in the process

Massa has come on leaps and bounds this season, he's been driving his socks off recently, I'd say his best driving since his accident.

People seem to forget that he's very very fast, look how close he was in 2008 to winning the WDC. I'd still rate Alonso above him in terms of overall package but I see Massa being a much bigger threat next year.

 

[smr]

So Jenson had 4 retirements - none his fault

Lewis had 6 retirements - 2 arguably his fault

Yes he had a better season over Jenson, I'm not disputing that, but they've had an equal amount of bad luck IMO and Lewis has only finished 2 points ahead of Jenson this season, which pales in comparison to the deficit to Jenson's total points last season.

 

[Duke]

Thought this picture was great.