Brazilian Grand Prix 2012, São Paulo - Race 20/20

How the hell is the Hulkenberg incident Hamiltons's fault? I mean really, open your eyes, it's without dispute! I agree to an extent that the Maldonado incident can be open to interpretation but the general consensus is that it wasn't Hamilton's fault.

Retirements are where the driver doesn't complete 90% of the race, so 5 for Button and 2 for Hamilton.
 
I don't get why the Vette/Sennal incident was not investigated. At least state it is being investigated like every other - even minor - incident has been throughout the year. No consistency shown on the final race of the season to decide the title. Vettel should have had a penalty for that in my opinion, but I can live with it IF...and only IF it has at least been stated to be investigated.

I've also had a look at the yellow flags/lights around the track and the claimed overtake by Vettel on Kobayashi and I quite simply cannot understand why anyone would claim otherwise to the fact he DID overtake under yellows. It's right there on onboard footage. He overtakes him under yellow lights. There is no argument here regardless as to whether Kobayashi was coming in the pits, as he still started and executed the overtake under yellows. It may have been completed successfully due to a lift from Kobayashi but the rules are there and clear. No overtaking. This would include clear attempts to do so surely?

I'm not surprised this was missed under the eventful race circumstances though.

Vettel gets all the luck, always.


In terms of the actual race weekend and event. A.Mazing. Awesome watch. Drama till the end. Thoroughly enjoyed it.
Alonso is a true competitor and deserved it more.
Some of the compilations and videos from the BBC coverage were also brilliant.

Sad to see Jake go...great guy.
 
MilanoChris said:
How the hell is the Hulkenberg incident Hamiltons's fault? I mean really, open your eyes, it's without dispute! I agree to an extent that the Maldonado incident can be open to interpretation but the general consensus is that it wasn't Hamilton's fault.

Retirements are where the driver doesn't complete 90% of the race, so 5 for Button and 2 for Hamilton.
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I can't believe this is still being debated. The only thing he could have done to stop that from happening was to brake hard and let Hulkenburg through, there is no other driver on the grid that would have done that so why should Hamilton?

The accident was in no way Hamiltons fault.
 
jaybee said:
I've also had a look at the yellow flags/lights around the track and the claimed overtake by Vettel on Kobayashi and I quite simply cannot understand why anyone would claim otherwise to the fact he DID overtake under yellows. It's right there on onboard footage. He overtakes him under yellow lights. There is no argument here regardless as to whether Kobayashi was coming in the pits, as he still started and executed the overtake under yellows. It may have been completed successfully due to a lift from Kobayashi but the rules are there and clear. No overtaking. This would include clear attempts to do so surely?
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If the overtake was under a yellow flag, it would have automatically been picked up straight away by Charlie Whiteing and the appropriate action dealt. No matter what you can see on the TV, at the time it was not a yellow flag which has been confirmed by the FIA. That is the end of it.
 
Duke said:
Thought this picture was great.

RsOye.jpg
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Not sure how to read that.. Massa unhappy?
 
smr said:
TBH I can see Massa out performing Alonso next year. That will be interesting. He's beaten him hand over fist the last few races, unsettling the Ferrari team in the process :)
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He might well do, would not say he has beat Alonso hand over fist though in the last few races LOL, and it's hard to see how it unsettled the team at all?
 
smr said:
So Jenson had 4 retirements - none his fault

Lewis had 6 retirements - 2 arguably his fault

Yes he had a better season over Jenson, I'm not disputing that, but they've had an equal amount of bad luck IMO and Lewis has only finished 2 points ahead of Jenson this season, which pales in comparison to the deficit to Jenson's total points last season.
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dont forget the tyre troubles at the beginning of the season hurting both drivers, but this would hurt JB more being less harsh on his rubber (therefore able to score less points in those races)

LH may well have more flair, and this seems to be the primary reason people love him. No problem at all with that.

At the end of the day over the three seasons they were together - even though nearly everyone thought JB would be slaughtered, they scored approximately the same amount of points.

They use different methods of driving to get approximately the same results...... yet somehow LH is considered the "better" driver.
 
Spuj1988 said:
If the overtake was under a yellow flag, it would have automatically been picked up straight away by Charlie Whiteing and the appropriate action dealt. No matter what you can see on the TV, at the time it was not a yellow flag which has been confirmed by the FIA. That is the end of it.
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Well what I saw on TV was the very on board footage from Vettel that the FIA would have used surely? Where is it confirmed by FIA that it was not a yellow? Why were yellow lights flashing on track then?
 
EVH said:
Hamilton was comfortably ahead of Hulk, it was only because of the back markers that Hulk got close enough to make a move.

Hulk locked up and hit Hamilton, and Hamilton neared rear ended the Caterham, who was crawling around turn 1, I'd call it a racing incident. How can you suggest he slow down and leave someone past? :confused:
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In those conditions on that corner (as a lot of people had done previously, incl LH himself a few times) people were locking up frequently

Why risk it?

Use the DRS zone in a couple of corners time to get past Hulk
 
Button = mostly retirements from poor positions - cost him a little.
Hamilton = mostly retirements from the lead or close to the front - cost him the title.
 
jaybee said:
Well what I saw on TV was the very on board footage from Vettel that the FIA would have used surely? Where is it confirmed by FIA that it was not a yellow? Why were yellow lights flashing on track then?
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The cars positions on track are all GPS monitored and the yellow flag zones are computer controlled. The systems that monitor the track are quite complex. If it had been a yellow flag pass it would have been automatically flagged up to the FIA by the computer and they would have all the data to go with it. Far more than just the video footage from the car.

When Vettel passed Kobayashi it was a static yellow and red striped light to signify the yellow and red striped flag for a slippery surface. This was confirmed to Sky (and presumably other people) by one of the FIA stewards.
 
FrankJH said:
They use different methods of driving to get approximately the same results...... yet somehow LH is considered the "better" driver.
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I imagine because when they would be in the hunt for the title Hamilton would be the only one to give them that. JB was never a contender this year regardless of luck. Hamilton was and would have been until the end if not for bad luck.

Hamilton at least gave himself chances by dragging that car to the front on saturdays. I've said it many times, he has no chance of beating top drivers in excellent cars which his shabby saturdays.

I still think Hamilton will beat him in the Merc next year. I like Jenson a lot, there's nothing to dislike but he's just not good enough on saturdays anymore to mount a credible challenge for the title. He will though utterly bum Perez next year.
 
jaybee said:
Well what I saw on TV was the very on board footage from Vettel that the FIA would have used surely? Where is it confirmed by FIA that it was not a yellow? Why were yellow lights flashing on track then?
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Light boards are not the only indication.
There's at least three other systems, what where they saying? Oh wait you don't know.

Yellow light boards also flash, for yellow flag. As can be seen from the onboard footage. They where not flashing. So they weren't representing yellow flags.

Your holding on to a ridicules position and its time for you to rethink. All it should have tool was oil flag confirmation and Ferrari had no issue with it.
 
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Skeeter said:
The cars positions on track are all GPS monitored and the yellow flag zones are computer controlled. The systems that monitor the track are quite complex. If it had been a yellow flag pass it would have been automatically flagged up to the FIA by the computer and they would have all the data to go with it. Far more than just the video footage from the car.

When Vettel passed Kobayashi it was a static yellow and red striped light to signify the yellow and red striped flag for a slippery surface. This was confirmed to Sky (and presumably other people) by one of the FIA stewards.
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Thanks, that's what I was trying to type next but you put it more clearly than I was coming up with.
 
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