Brazilian Grand Prix 2012, São Paulo - Race 20/20

[ChrisD.]

Vettel had the whole pack around him, did Hamilton?

What's that got to do with it? Hamilton had two cars around him, one in front (a back marker) and one slighty behind on his inside. He positioned his car in the only possible way he could to avoid incident. Hulkenburg lost the back end of his car and as a result took out Hamilton.

Vettel had a car to his left, on the inside of the corner, and turned into them, ending their race. He didn't have anyone in front of him.

 

[Theophany]

It's very controversial because although it has been known that Lap 1 incidents are generally less likely to be punished due to the tight pack, there have been circumstances whereby people have been punished. Look at Grosjean when he caused the accident at Spa. He was punished hard was he not? Yes this was a nastier accident, but the principal is the same; a racing driver causing an avoidable accident.

Not really comparable though, Grosjean was punished because the stewards could easily meet a higher burden of proof - i.e. it was another reckless accident in a string of them that were becoming more and more potentially lethal. In Vettel's case, it's the balance of probability - i.e. it was likely that Vettel simply did not see Senna and the line he took was still within the normal course of racing, even if it wasn't his corner.

 

[Skeeter]

It's very controversial because although it has been known that Lap 1 incidents are generally less likely to be punished due to the tight pack, there have been circumstances whereby people have been punished. Look at Grosjean when he caused the accident at Spa. He was punished hard was he not? Yes this was a nastier accident, but the principal is the same; a racing driver causing an avoidable accident.

Grosjeans ban was for causing multiple first lap incidents.

 

[Mr Men]

And yet you claim the Hamilton incident was Hamilton's fault?

Welcome to the F1 section, where the views of a member change depending which driver was involved.

Anyway watching the video again Seb owes Kimi a big thanks for him not just going into the back of him, nice reactions by Kimi.

But yeah it was clearly Vettel's fault for the collision and it was very strange it was not looked at as every other collision is certainly investigated.

 

[Spuj]

Anyway watching the video again Seb owes Kimi a big thanks for him not just going into the back of him, nice reactions by Kimi.

But yeah it was clearly Vettel's fault for the collision and it was very strange it was not looked at as every other collision is certainly investigated.

To be fair though, it was a misjudgement from Kimi that put him in that situation. It was good reactions to avoid the back of him though.

While I think we would disagree slightly on the collision, I agree that it should have been investigated, even though I'm of the opinion there would have been no further action.

 

[ChrisD.]

I agree that it should have been investigated

It should have definitely been investigated considering it ended Senna's race.

Bit of a bump here and there, especially on lap 1 is something to be expected, it's racing. But where race ending damage occurs to an individual or multiple drivers cars it should be investigated at least.

 

[Skeeter]

What happened to Perez?

Edit: ah, collected by Senna.

Was it definitely not investigated.

 

[XeNoN89]

Lol at the two relentless Hamilton bashers/trolls in here.

Good to see most aren't taking the bait

 

[Dimi]

Well done Vettel on his championship, can't help but feel how lucky he gets though when he does get hit or he hits someone.

It happened in Abu Dhabi where he had no business going into Senna, nearly had his front wing torn off. The same happens again without any real consequence in Brazil.

 

[Outcast]

Lol at the two relentless Hamilton bashers/trolls in here.

Good to see most aren't taking the bait

Lewis should have been smart enough to realise he was boxed in behind the slower Caterham and braked a tad earlier thereby being able to switch over to the inside line.

It was a foregone conclusion Hulk had overdriven and would be tangling with whoever was outside of him. both cars (Caterham and FI) would have fumbled over each other giving Lewis the clear run on the inside.

Simples.

Once again there is

Race Clever <-- Boring but brings home the Bacon
Banzai Stoopid <-- Exciting but often ends in Damage/DNF


Jenson knew they were running on the edge of adhesion and that Hulky was overdriving (for the conditions) and that's why Jenson let him go. He knew Hulky would fall off the track sooner or later which he did allowing Lewis to get in front.

Lewis having "overdriven" to get past Jenson as well.

Without a doubt Jenson knew those two would tangle and he would be close enough to bring home the Bacon.

So obvious.


Lets not forget that at the beginning of the race when the two McLarens were equal Jenson overtook Lewis and utterly annihilated him.


(did I take the bait or are you going to ?)

 

[ChrisD.]

Was it definitely not investigated.

Not at all.

 

[Skeeter]

Hmm, having watched that over head shot a few times Senna was 3 cars and a long way back from Vettel and went for the gap with a serious lunge. Its not like Vettel deliberately turned in on someone he knew was there, he just took the racing line as Senna went in deep.

It should have been investigated as it took out 2 people, but I agree it would have been a 1st lap racing incident. For all we know the FIA could have had a look and decided that was the case without sending out the notification that it was under investigation?

 

[Skeeter]

Lewis should have been smart enough to realise he was boxed in behind the slower Caterham and braked a tad earlier thereby being able to switch over to the inside line.

It was a foregone conclusion Hulk had overdriven and would be tangling with whoever was outside of him. both cars (Caterham and FI) would have fumbled over each other giving Lewis the clear run on the inside.

Simples.

Once again there is

Race Clever <-- Boring but brings home the Bacon
Banzai Stoopid <-- Exciting but often ends in Damage/DNF


Jenson knew they were running on the edge of adhesion and that Hulky was overdriving (for the conditions) and that's why Jenson let him go. He knew Hulky would fall off the track sooner or later which he did allowing Lewis to get in front.

Lewis having "overdriven" to get past Jenson as well.

Without a doubt Jenson knew those two would tangle and he would be close enough to bring home the Bacon.

So obvious.


Lets not forget that at the beginning of the race when the two McLarens were equal Jenson overtook Lewis and utterly annihilated him.


(did I take the bait or are you going to ?)

Lol. This "he should have known he would crash" theory always makes me laugh.

 

[Outcast]

Are you seriously questioning Jensons wet weather skills ?

 

[ChrisD.]

Hmm, having watched that over head shot a few times Senna was 3 cars and a long way back from Vettel and went for the gap with a serious lunge. Its not like Vettel deliberately turned in on someone he knew was there, he just took the racing line as Senna went in deep.

It should have been investigated as it took out 2 people, but I agree it would have been a 1st lap racing incident. For all we know the FIA could have had a look and decided that was the case without sending out the notification that it was under investigation?

Pause the video at 54 seconds. Vettel has two cars to his inside, and turns across both of them. He misses the first narrowly and then collects Senna directly after, as a result he took two people out of this race.

 

[Skeeter]

Pause the video at 54 seconds. Vettel has two cars to his inside, and turns across both of them. He misses the first narrowly and then collects Senna directly after, as a result he took two people out of this race.

Vettel is on the racing line and those cars are not alongside him. He's fully entitled to take the corner.

 

[~Mike~]

The Senna/Vettel crash was just a racing incident in my view.

 

[XeNoN89]

Vettel is on the racing line and those cars are not alongside him. He's fully entitled to take the corner.

Sky did a feature on this on the skypad. Bruno was on the racing line, Vettel was much wider than usual, and then cut across.

 

[ChrisD.]

Why did Vettel turn in so aggressively? A second or so before he's pointing towards the front, then in one move he swipes across one car before hitting another.

 

[Skeeter]

Sky did a feature on this on the skypad. Bruno was on the racing line, Vettel was much wider than usual, and then cut across.

The racing line is all the way down the right hand side of the straight. Senna is way over to the left.

You can't just sling it up the inside of a corner and expect everyone else to just get out of your way.