Poll: Brazilian Grand Prix 2021, São Paulo - Race 19

[sparkymark75]

Assuming your first part refers to Hamilton then where was the daft decision? If it was his DSQ from qualifying then the car failed scrutineering. It can and does happen in any motor-racing series across the world. It doesn't matter whether it was by 0.2mm or 0.2m, either it was legal after qualifying or it wasn't. Merc's "defence" was Verstappen may or may not have touched the wing.

If there was any conspiracy against Mercedes or Hamilton, they'd have "failed it" for the race, not when zero points are awarded.

This sport really brings out the nut jobs sometimes (not necessarily aimed at Slam but the thread in general).

Isn’t Mercs gripe about this because RB have been allowed to replace/repair their wings but Merc weren’t afforded the same opportunity?

 

[this_is_gav]

Red Bull's wings didn't fail scrutineering though. They passed every test. They may have needed fixing to ensure they passed those tests (or prevented them from failing on track, which should be an obvious thing to avoid)!

No, it's just playground games, like little kids flapping hands at each other. If there's an angle to discredit or damage each other's brands, or poach points, then they're desperate to grasp at those straws.

They probably both feel like they've had genuine grievances this season (and on occasion they've been right to do so, on track at least), but they're both as bad as each other - throwing mud hoping some sticks or at least distracts the opposition.

Put simply Hamilton probably didn't intend to knock Verstappen out at Silverstone. Verstappen probably didn't try to take Hamilton out at Monza. Hamilton probably didn't try to run Verstappen off track at COTA. Verstappen probably didn't try to run Hamilton off track at Interlagos. These are just things that happen when you've got a title on the line and a couple of determined drivers. It's happened, what, four times in the last 25 years (that's just in the final or penultimate race) - these things can happen in a close title fight - the pressure gets to everyone involved.

 

[AndyCr15]

but it's not like he turned towards Hamilton.

This is the bit I don't get. The commentators kept talking about they needed to see if he turned his wheel towards Hamilton... no, he didn't... it was a left hand bend... he can still turn left but aim his car towards Hamilton to his right?! Even if it was 'unintentional' it would then be from him coming in to the bend too fast... due to him trying to keep up with someone else able to take the bend faster, as they were on the correct line and had better traction.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Red Bull's wings didn't fail scrutineering though. They passed every test. They may have needed fixing to ensure they passed those tests (or prevented them from failing on track, which should be an obvious thing to avoid)!

This is exactly why Merc are annoyed. Despite the FIA technical delegate noting that it was damaged, they weren't allowed to fix the DRS flap in order to pass the test.

As you rightly say, it's just playground games between RB and Merc. Anything opportunity/loophole/complaint possible will be used to destablise the other team.

 

[cuke2u]

Yes but the difference was RB noticed the hairline cracks to their rear wing and requested from the FIA if they could change it, which is within the rules. Unfortunately Mercedes fell foul of the same rules because they did not follow this procedure. Rules are rules and that is how it is, otherwise it leaves it open to any team having an unfair advantage then claim it was because a part was broken, thereby circumnavigating the rules.

I can imagine the veins on Arnie's neck, sorry mean Toto, if their appeal fails too. He is another who likes to pressure the race director and also have his five mins of fame with SkyF1.
Thing is, if Lewis had used his head and not desperately tried to overtake Max in the wrong place in the wrong way, and left it until the pit straight where he had a 20kph advantage, he could have overtook easily without fuss. Down to Lewis being stupid...

 

[bayo000]

Thing is, if Lewis had used his head and not desperately tried to overtake Max in the wrong place in the wrong way, and left it until the pit straight where he had a 20kph advantage, he could have overtook easily without fuss. Down to Lewis being stupid...

He did that earlier in the race with Checo, only for Checo to take the place back in turn 4 with the help of DRS. To be sure of keeping the place it was better to make the overtake into the turn 4 which gave him more time to pull away and make sure Max doesn't get the next DRS. If anything he showed that he learned from earlier incident.

 

[Feek]

If anything he showed that he learned from earlier incident.

In the same way he learned during the sprint that if he was too close to the car in front as he reached the pit straight, he would be in the dirty air and not be able to get past. If he started a little bit further back, he was able to breeze past everyone he approached.

 

[Mr Jack]

Thing is, if Lewis had used his head and not desperately tried to overtake Max in the wrong place in the wrong way, and left it until the pit straight where he had a 20kph advantage, he could have overtook easily without fuss. Down to Lewis being stupid...

Rubbish: Lewis had Max well passed, fair and square. The only reason he didn't drive off into the distance is that Max made an illegal defending move that took both of them off track.

 

[this_is_gav]

This is the bit I don't get. The commentators kept talking about they needed to see if he turned his wheel towards Hamilton... no, he didn't... it was a left hand bend... he can still turn left but aim his car towards Hamilton to his right?! Even if it was 'unintentional' it would then be from him coming in to the bend too fast... due to him trying to keep up with someone else able to take the bend faster, as they were on the correct line and had better traction.

I think it was just that - he came in too quick, which is why he couldn't turn as sharp as needed, otherwise he'd have suddenly lost control and probably taken one or both out of the race. I think it was a desperate attempt to keep the place and he just overcooked it and ran wide, taking Hamilton with him (whether Hamilton himself would have made the corner anyway is up for debate).

It was just hard racing, but as I've said, I thought they should give the position to Hamilton afterwards and just concentrate on finishing second. Hamilton was always likely to pass Verstappen at some point with that pace.

I can't see Mercede's appeal attempt getting anywhere. No damage was done and Hamilton won anyway.

 

[Mr Jack]

I can't see Mercede's appeal attempt getting anywhere. No damage was done and Hamilton won anyway.

The stewards are fond of telling us how the consequences of an infringement aren't considered when deciding a penalty. One might mention something about how the other one has bells on.

 

[Feek]

I can't see Mercede's appeal attempt getting anywhere. No damage was done and Hamilton won anyway.

They're doing it to try and get Max a penalty which will drop him down to third and hence get fewer points in the championship.

 

[this_is_gav]

The stewards are fond of telling us how the consequences of an infringement aren't considered when deciding a penalty. One might mention something about how the other one has bells on.

But it's rare that a penalty is dished out if it doesn't adversely affect the car seen as innocent. For example Tsunoda would have been less likely to get a penalty had he not damaged Stroll's car.

They're doing it to try and get Max a penalty which will drop him down to third and hence get fewer points in the championship.

Yes I realise that. I just can't see it working. If anything it looks better from his onboard than from the poor external angles, in my opinion anyway.

 

[Kautya]

They're doing it to try and get Max a penalty which will drop him down to third and hence get fewer points in the championship.

Thats the aspiration, much like RB's review after silverstone, but I dont see a penalty being given in this case either.

 

[bayo000]

They're doing it to try and get Max a penalty which will drop him down to third and hence get fewer points in the championship.

We all know that but it's unlikely they will dish out any race penalty now. They made a decision during the race, even if it was a wrong one, and that should be it. Give him another fine or a grid penalty for the next race if they decide he was guilty.

 

[ZeeWrath]

The stewards are fond of telling us how the consequences of an infringement aren't considered when deciding a penalty. One might mention something about how the other one has bells on.

I never really understood what they mean by this.

so if Lewis doesnt avoid Max and they touch and bump wheels they would be more likely to give a penalty as there is contact
if they touched but Lewis breaks his suspension and is out of the race then the penalty they apply should be the same as if they bumped wheels?

but if there is no contact and they carry on as they were for the next lap then no harm no foul?

 

[Mr Jack]

I never really understood what they mean by this.

Yeah, it's so obviously untrue. Especially in this case because there was no contact, so the "caused a collision" cannot be applied.

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

The fact remains, it was never actually investigated. Only noted. Mercedes can force them to actually investigate. Why would they not do it?
What would Red Bull have done in the same situation? You can bet you bottom dollar they would have forced an investigation. Why should Mercedes not play the system in the same way? It could benefit them greatly, or nothing with happen. No harm, no foul from their point of view!
F1 is not about being friendly, and Mercedes have had the performance luxury to let them "be nice" but now the chips are down, all the tactics available to them will be used to help them get closer to the championship. Millions are on the line, so its bound to happen.

 

[woppy101]

Thats the aspiration, much like RB's review after silverstone, but I dont see a penalty being given in this case either.

A penalty was given to Lewis though, he was penalised in the race(10 seconds if memory serves), RB tried and failed to get the penalty upgraded, max got away with a penalty that should have been given, so it would be fair to give a retrospective penalty to max 5-10s, but we all know the FIA don’t have the balls to do that.

 

[Jono8]

Cant fathom how anyone is defending Max here (or blaming Lewis).

If Max doesn't brake horrendously late and go massively off the track, Lewis overtakes him. Therefore he gained an advantage from intentionally leaving the track (and don't tell me it was a mistake/he didn't know braking that late meant he wouldn't take the corner...that is absurd.)

 

[Alibaba99]

Thats the aspiration, much like RB's review after silverstone, but I dont see a penalty being given in this case either.

RBR didn't have a review after Silverstone. There was no new evidence so they were refused the ability to appeal. This is the big difference with this case. The forward facing video became available after the race. so there is new evidence, hence Mercedes can lodge an appeal.