**British Armed Forces Discussion Thread**

They want people to PVR. They changed it to a 12 month period in December to give them time for new Sacs to trickle through and cover the losses. Then soon enough they will have a workforce that know nothing different to the new scheme and they save money all round.

That's what I figure is their long term anyway. Retention my ass. They want the same for less.
 
They'll contract out most trades in time. One thing I quickly learned after leaving the RAF and moving to BAE was that contractors really are significantly cheaper.

The other thing is that these days there is so much knowledge and experience within companies such as BAE due to all the best people from the service being offer roles on leaving, and even being head hunted, the RAF at least would find it almost impossible to operate without us. That is certainly true for Typhoon.

The Army and Navy don't have the same "problem" yet, but I think it'll happen. Perhaps less so for the Army for obvious reasons, but contractor integration is coming for everyone.
 
Eddie182 said:
They'll contract out most trades in time. One thing I quickly learned after leaving the RAF and moving to BAE was that contractors really are significantly cheaper.

The other thing is that these days there is so much knowledge and experience within companies such as BAE due to all the best people from the service being offer roles on leaving, and even being head hunted, the RAF at least would find it almost impossible to operate without us. That is certainly true for Typhoon.

The Army and Navy don't have the same "problem" yet, but I think it'll happen. Perhaps less so for the Army for obvious reasons, but contractor integration is coming for everyone.
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Theres a large amount of people here that leave the RAF on the Friday and start working for BAE in the same hangars on Monday morning.

Personally know of 2 of them who got passed over for promotion at their 10 year point, both highly suitable and already acting as supervisors watching other people getting promoted past them.

A week later they're both 15k better off, and the RAF is struggling to backfill their positions. One is still there and the other is off working the windfarms as that was even better.
 
Eddie182 said:
The other thing is that these days there is so much knowledge and experience within companies such as BAE due to all the best people from the service being offer roles on leaving, and even being head hunted, the RAF at least would find it almost impossible to operate without us. That is certainly true for Typhoon.
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Relies on the service providing the experience though doesn't it? Which is why there is/was talk of new techies being promised a bae position after the service because bae's turnover is high as well. If they could only hire new civilians, they would incur plenty of the expenses as well and completely lack experience, or hire experience from outside the country massive cost.

Look at the nuclear powerplant engineers for building astute, the navy hadn't done it in So long bae couldn't draw experience from the service and got themselves in all sorts of tangles, eventually resorting to paying through the nose on American contractors.

Or try and imagine bae fulfilling the Saudi contracts without using RAF experience. They wouldn't be able to.

The RAF relies on bae because it has slowly become integrated with it to the point that it's taken over major parts of its support mechanism to a poiint that was unthinkable 30 or even 20 years ago. But its a two way system, bae needs to remember that so it doesn't hunt itself to extinction.
 
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Boycey0211 said:
Theres a large amount of people here that leave the RAF on the Friday and start working for BAE in the same hangars on Monday morning.

Personally know of 2 of them who got passed over for promotion at their 10 year point, both highly suitable and already acting as supervisors watching other people getting promoted past them.

A week later they're both 15k better off, and the RAF is struggling to backfill their positions. One is still there and the other is off working the windfarms as that was even better.
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Mates off to Saudi soon, aircraft techie. A lot more money, and very similar work. Unbelievable really.
 
I've two mates (ex-JT's from 12sqn) who left rig work to go over to Tabuk on Saudi Tonkas for £4k a month. Both are married with kids and they love it (one for 8 months, one for 5 months) but I'm not sure it's much fun for the singleys, although they do nip off to Thailand for their leave 3 times a year :D
 
Boycey0211 said:
Theres a large amount of people here that leave the RAF on the Friday and start working for BAE in the same hangars on Monday morning.
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Yeah same here. Although there are also a fair few who go off to do other things adamant that they won't end up working for BAE, who suddenly appear a few months down the line when they discover that the "big bad job stealing contractors" story they'd come to believe wasn't actually true all along.

I at least had the courtesy to spend 6 months on resettlement/terminal leave etc. swanning around in my pants before turning to the dark side (a summer off was more appealing than double bubble).

Nutella33 said:
Relies on the service providing the experience though doesn't it? Which is why there is/was talk of new techies being promised a bae position after the service because bae's turnover is high as well. If they could only hire new civilians, they would incur plenty of the expenses as well and completely lack experience, or hire experience from outside the country massive cost.
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Indeed, there is certainly a degree of reliance on ex RAF personnel, at least in the "on base" community, but then recruiting people with the necessary experience is how the whole civilian world works. Although there are still a significant number of people who were never in the forces. However that said, at least for Typhoon, the maintenance functions are set up such that spanner turners don't need to have any previous type experience (or even any aviation experience).

Once you go away from the on base environment to the "back office" support functions I'd say the ex forces are are much less than half of the total.

A lot of ex forces guys, myself included, start off quite shocked by the fact that in the real world if you don't like your job or fancy a change you can just go find a new one whenever you like. And you don't necessarily have to wait for someone else to decide you're ready to promote, it's all on you and if you want to excel, you can. Something the forces are exceptionally terrible at.
 
Begbie said:
ICT Tech here. Already know some guys who are banging out over this.

Shocking, so if I've read everything right. IF I don't get promoted within 3 years I'll be getting a pay cut (currently top level) down to 26~k a year?

This is unbelievable. I need to have another read through, but this has really made me think twice about staying in.
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RoboCod said:
Your pay won't ever go down. You just might not earn as much as you initially thought as you would on pay 2000
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Yes, it could well go down. Your current pay (4k more than the new max) is only protected for 3 years.
 
RoboCod said:
The jump to Cpl is £2k/yr? I don't understand where you're getting £100 from? Unless you're in a trade that has been bumped down to supp 2 and you're already maxed out on lvl 9 SAC high pay band?
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Which is exactly what has happened to ICT techs and armourers...the trades I mentioned. In those trades, if you're a level 9 SAC(T) then your next promotion is worth £80 a year.
 
OK so to me that reads that it might or it might not. It's a little vague. At least 3 years could mean actually 4 or more. Very dubious. I don't see that the new max is £4k less however. The current max for an sac is £29947. Supp1 max is £27398 (which no one on high will shift to)and the the supp 3 max is £28749.

I'd be very surprised if anyone ever got bumped down in pay though.

Edit: I missed that SAC(T) Can only reach level 8. Still, it isn't 4k less, particularly as most of the techs are on supp3.
 
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It's not just the figure change for one year, you need to realise it adds up over the years you're in and equates to a larger loss in overall earnings from what we all initially worked for.

I'll be level 9 and have no increase until I hit Cpl. I'll have 3 years to get it (which is fair enough) and then when I do, I'll get an £800 pa increase. This will then hold for 2 years.

Quick promotion is the only way to alleviate some of it.

But basically everyone loses out on this new scheme. Also recognise that Av and mech trades have a much more competitive promotion path. 8 years is average time to hit Cpl. Then we also have a whole extra rank (CT) which lower trades skip and will hit flight sergeant earlier. So earning more money faster.
 
I hear what you're saying about loss of potential earnings and agree. However, it irks me slightly that people are stating they have taken a pay cut. No they haven't, the potential earnings have fallen, but they were never at the £29k point anyway,their pay hasn't cut. It's a subtle difference and if we're being honest, how many SACs/Pte do you know who have their life and finances planned out as if they are reliant on that £29k salary? It will make not one bit of difference to the millionaires weekend crew. I know I don't plan ahead for my increments, I live on what I earn here and now, paying my mortgage and running my car. Anything more in future just increases my living & saving budgets.


Needless to say, the forces lose out through the whole thing. Was anyone actually expecting good news from NEM though, seriously?
 
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