British Grand Prix 2010, Silverstone Circuit - Race 10/19

NightSt@lk3r said:
Hamilton is a quick driver, that is all. he is hot headed, cant make his own decisions on stratagy, and is a regular PR disaster off the track, Button is by far the more complete driver package.
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If Button is the better "package", why is he not leading the championship?

Button is definitely better in every single department (except for outright speed). The problem is the "speed" parameter is actually very important.

Ultimately, winning the title/races is what gets you attention from media/sponsors. Being good with media duties doesnt.

It is all very well being astute off the track, but if "the other guy" is the man winning the championship/races, then Button simply won't get the attention. As an example, Senna (with his big name) is a marketing man's dream. The problem is that he just doesnt appear to be good enough to warrant the attention.

For me, Alonso is the most complete driver in F1, though it is becoming difficult to justify this when everr race seems to be ending in disaster.

Of course, the all-time complete driver is MS. No one even comes close, but thats another story.
 
CaptainRAVE said:
Always have been as long I can remember, going back to the Schumacher days. Actually, almost everyone of their calls was wrong back in those days :rolleyes:
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When Senna drove for McLaren, the strategy calls were inspired. Much to the frustration of Mansell/Williams and Mansell fans (including me). ;)
 
sunama said:
If Button is the better "package", why is he not leading the championship?

Button is definitely better in every single department (except for outright speed). The problem is the "speed" parameter is actually very important.

Ultimately, winning the title/races is what gets you attention from media/sponsors. Being good with media duties doesnt.

It is all very well being astute off the track, but if "the other guy" is the man winning the championship/races, then Button simply won't get the attention. As an example, Senna (with his big name) is a marketing man's dream. The problem is that he just doesnt appear to be good enough to warrant the attention.

For me, Alonso is the most complete driver in F1, though it is becoming difficult to justify this when everr race seems to be ending in disaster.

Of course, the all-time complete driver is MS. No one even comes close, but thats another story.
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When did MS ever compete against a decent team-mate who was allowed to challenge him?
 
sunama said:
When Senna drove for McLaren, the strategy calls were inspired. Much to the frustration of Mansell/Williams and Mansell fans (including me). ;)
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When Senna drove for McLaren, they didn't need much of a strategy beyond "strap Senna into car, watch car go fast, celebrate win".
 
Oh, i see the button handjob club is back out in force again.

Guy is doing a reasonable job but to suggest he might of won in monaco or had the same pace as hamilton at silverstone is utter tripe, hell the guy would have finished the best part of a minute down if it wasnt for the safety car.
 
NightSt@lk3r said:
Hamilton is a quick driver, that is all. he is hot headed, cant make his own decisions on stratagy, and is a regular PR disaster off the track, Button is by far the more complete driver package.

Also you seem to have forgotten about Buttons costly DNF in Monaco.
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2009 and 2010 he has proven himself to be one of the least hot headed at the front of the grid. The 'cant make his own decisions' seems baseless - he makes strategy calls all the time - it's just the ones that don't work out that people remember.

PR disaster off track? I think the number of personal sponsors alone contradicts this statement. Alonso, by comparison, has proven to be a bit of a PR disaster so far in 2010.
 
A mate phoned me up last night, Silverstone was the first GP he'd been too. Much of what he said to me shows why F1 is so hard to get excited about by all but the enthusiasts and why viewing figures slide and younger fans aren't coming to the sport.

He said nothing happens, "I sat there for 30 laps watching the same cars come round in the same order with the gaps to each getting bigger and decided to have a sleep on the embankment instead" :D

"All for the bargain price of £225 plus spending money"

That said I've been to many GPs and many different top sporting occassions and F1 is the only one where you get more feeling of whats happening from watching it on tv rather than being there. You end up watching the big screens anyway.

Can't be bothered with the Hamilton Button debate, they are shining at different times which is probably the point mclaren hired him. I didn't expect Button to get 70% of points Hamilton gets this year so I'm surprised as the car hasn't been built to his liking and it's a new team to get used to.

I do think Hamilton has more raw pace but I also think he's a little bit thick which counters his raw pace at times.
 
dannyjo22 said:
A mate phoned me up last night, Silverstone was the first GP he'd been too. Much of what he said to me shows why F1 is so hard to get excited about by all but the enthusiasts and why viewing figures slide and younger fans aren't coming to the sport.

He said nothing happens, "I sat there for 30 laps watching the same cars come round in the same order with the gaps to each getting bigger and decided to have a sleep on the embankment instead" :D

"All for the bargain price of £225 plus spending money"

That said I've been to many GPs and many different top sporting occassions and F1 is the only one where you get more feeling of whats happening from watching it on tv rather than being there. You end up watching the big screens anyway.
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Wow he must really not be interested in motor racing if he found the noise, smell and atmosphere of 24 F1 cars racing boring! It was my first race (been to many tests inc standing in the Red Bull garage whilst setting up the car and a practice or two before) and thought it was epic. I thought I'd seen it all with the practice sessions but the Sunday was immense.

The crowd was really getting into it. I could fully follow what was going on via 5 Live commentary although the track commentary was 'ok'. I didn't need to look at the screen unless something minor had happened like someone drifting off a little etc.
 
NightSt@lk3r said:
How do you know, he could have won for all you know.
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Seriously? Yes the possibility is there, no one can turn the clock back and say for a fact he wouldn't of won but it's so unlikely that he wouldn't. He started 8th on a track that is very hard to overtake on, I think he perhaps would've made some positions up, but I feel it's pretty safe to say that he wouldn't of been able to crack the Red Bulls and Kubica for a podium on that day.

I'm not saying Button is bad by any means, he is WDC for goodness sake, but to say he could have won Monaco, or at least 2nd to equal out Hamiltons wheel explosion is daft.

I also don't see why people think Hamilton isn't a complete package, yes Button made fantastic tyre calls this year which benefitted him immensely, but I don't think it's fair to be slam Hamilton for depending on the team and their data, don't forget tyre strategy has worked out well for him before. If Button can get his qualifying pace sorted then I think he would be a complete package, at the moment it's hard to call Alonso a complete package with the amount of costly mistakes this year, the Redbull drivers aren't complete either as they can't drive in close proximity without smashing into each other or Hamilton. I think Hamilton is perhaps the most complete at the moment, but I suppose you could also argue that Kubica has been doing just as well but can't get the results out of the fairly average Renault, if he was in the Redbull I think he would be giving everyone a hard time :).
 
I think people just get a bit extreme about the differences between them. They are quite different drivers with different strengths and weaknesses. Overall almost everyone would agree that Hamilton is the better package since his weaknesses are mainly made up for by him being arguably fastest driver on the grid. But I don't think the difference is that great, certainly not what people were expecting at the start of the year.

One explanation for this might actually be that heavily fuelled cars suit Button very well. This would also partially explain why he has trouble with qualifying (though he's never been that great at it). This weekend he certainly said that once to car was full the balance was much better for him.

The reason why they are the best driver pairing on the grid is their differing styles. In the races where Hamilton has difficulty Jenson always does really well and vice-versa. They are both drivers capable of making points out of diffcult situations but they use different tools, Lewis his insane speed and passing ability, Jenson his clever strategy calls.

Over the season I would expect that Hamilton finishes ahead of Button barring unforseen crcumstances (like some DNFs for Lewis). But this is partially down to many races being dry processions that don't play to Jenson's strengths.
 
NightSt@lk3r said:
Hamilton is a quick driver, that is all. he is hot headed, cant make his own decisions on stratagy, and is a regular PR disaster off the track, Button is by far the more complete driver package.

Also you seem to have forgotten about Buttons costly DNF in Monaco.
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Hamilton can be a bit hot headed but when was the last time it cost him points?
Button's decision making has been completely over-hyped. The decision not to pit in China was based on the hope that the track wouldn't get any wetter which is as much down to luck as judgement.
Hamilton's DNF cost him 20 points, relative to Button, Button's DNF probably cost him 4 points.
 
xen_ said:
I think Hamilton is perhaps the most complete at the moment, but I suppose you could also argue that Kubica has been doing just as well but can't get the results out of the fairly average Renault, if he was in the Redbull I think he would be giving everyone a hard time :).
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There are definitely others on the grid who have to potential to cause Hamilton/Alonso/Vettel et. al. problems. It's difficult to know how good they are because they are in slower cars but also the pressure of being expected to win in many races is different. There are plenty of drivers who have looked fast but folded under the pressure, or were less of a complete package than people thought. Massa would be a good example.

Hamilton, Alonso and Button have proven themselves capable of withstanding the pressure and taking it right to the line for the WDC. That is extremely valuable.
 
JRS said:
When Senna drove for McLaren, they didn't need much of a strategy beyond "strap Senna into car, watch car go fast, celebrate win".
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Hehehe.

Not quite. Towards the end of his career, Senna's big problem was Mansell who was in devastating form, allied to the Williams car.

Who can forget Mansell's qualifying lap (in the dry, no incidents, no unfair advantages), when he outqualified his team-mate by 2s and was about 3s faster than the next non-Williams car!!! In 2010, we all hail a driver when he is faster by 0.4s (or similar)...what would we say if a driver managed to go 2s faster than any other car on the grid?

Let us not forget that that car, was designed by a certain Adrian Newey, who also designed the fastest car in 2010 ;)
 
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