British Grand Prix 2010, Silverstone Circuit - Race 10/19

sunama said:
Even if it means that both drivers take points off of each other and end up losing the world title, ala 2007?
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They ought to back both drivers equally until, if it ever happens, one is out of the title race. If both stay in the title race to the last race then they should still maintain driver equality I think.

Of course this wouldn't have prevented the McLaren 2007 scenario as both Lewis and Alonso were still in the fight for the title in the last race. :p
 
Moley said:
It doesn't matter if they lose the drivers title. RBR are in it for the constructors title - which they are currently second in.
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RBR are in it for both titles. Don't ever let them tell you otherwise.

I remember when Alonso and Renault were gunning for the titles in 2005/6: Briatore said that to him the most important thing is the drivers title.

In fairness, both titles matter. Both titles will yield significant monetary benefits. Sponsors will definitely pay more if your team has the reigning world champion and that No.1 sticker on the front of the car.

F1 is all about money, especially when you consider the costs involved to run a team and develop the car.

If any team boss ever comes out and says that the driver's title is not important, he is lying through his teeth.

If I were in charge, I would absolutely use the No.1/No.2 driver system as it has been used previously to great effect. Remember, RBR have the best car...of that there is no doubt. McLaren though have the best performing drivers and as such RBR cannot afford to get complacent and allow their drivers to take points off of eachother. RBR have chosen a driver and are now going to run with him.
 
sunama said:
RBR have the best xxxx car......
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I was going to put "designed" - but reliability has a big part to play in that also, so no I dont believe RBR do have "the best car"

They may well have the fastest car ....depending on the day, the weather, and a few other things - but at the end of the day if their major competitors are keeping up with them in the Championships (or even beating RBR) with a slower car......yes you can blame team spirit / inter-team clashes on the track etc etc, but there have been enough failures (even at the last race) to suggest the car is weak in certain areas (its just very lucky that recently they havent actually had a failure during the race - puncture causing loss of points yes , but thats not really a failure imo as its a random event)

The best qualifying car - almost certainly RBR

The best allround car - almost certainly McLaren (at this point in time - with 1/2 a season to go, it could still change drastically)

the best race car......we will have to see until the end of the season imo
 
sunama said:
RBR have chosen a driver and are now going to run with him.
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Problem with that is that it's a fair bit different nowadays when compared with the 90's with Benetton, McLaren and Ferrari driver systems.

With team orders banned it's very feasible for Webber to say sod it and just do his best to win, RBR can either fire him or take steps during races (or more specifically pit stops) to coerce the result, which I'm not sure the FIA would look too kindly upon...

The number 1/2 driver system does work, but only when the 2nd driver accepts to be a second driver, or they're slow enough that they're the second driver by default. Webber didn't accept (and from his actions at Silverstone Won't accept) being a number 2 driver, and there's not much RBR can do about it.

I do think Webber will be trying to get out of his contract, although other drive options are limited it's quite obvious that the only way he'll win a title at RBR is by fighting against his own team, somewhere like Renault would probably happily take him to go alongside Kubica, doubt he's more likely to win the title there but he can't exactly be less likely to win it...
 
SKILL said:
Problem with that is that it's a fair bit different nowadays when compared with the 90's with Benetton, McLaren and Ferrari driver systems.

With team orders banned it's very feasible for Webber to say sod it and just do his best to win, RBR can either fire him or take steps during races (or more specifically pit stops) to coerce the result, which I'm not sure the FIA would look too kindly upon...

The number 1/2 driver system does work, but only when the 2nd driver accepts to be a second driver, or they're slow enough that they're the second driver by default. Webber didn't accept (and from his actions at Silverstone Won't accept) being a number 2 driver, and there's not much RBR can do about it.

I do think Webber will be trying to get out of his contract, although other drive options are limited it's quite obvious that the only way he'll win a title at RBR is by fighting against his own team, somewhere like Renault would probably happily take him to go alongside Kubica, doubt he's more likely to win the title there but he can't exactly be less likely to win it...
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I agree, to have a No 1/2 driver system then the drivers needed to be hired under those condititions and of course both were not. It seems Webber is fighting on the track and fighting with RBR. He is clearly a talented driver and so is Vettel ( though the attitude is not good, well he is German ). As for taking points from one another. Well that should be be only 1st, 2nd, or 3rd place points. Which will still put them ahead of the following pack.
We do not need a return to those team orders of who is to win and who is not going too. The FIA did not like it and the viewers / crowds did not like it, and if you are paying a lot of money to see a race then they should race. It not the teams might as well post a list of the finishing positions before the race and I can then get on with so DIY around the house instead of wasting my time watching the F1 on TV !
 
JRS said:
It's clear - you cut a corner and advance a position (or retain one that you were certain to lose), you get penalised.
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I agree with what your saying but there has been a time recently when a driver cut the corner and advanced and didn't get penalised, struggling to remember what race? Can you remember it?

Although I agree Alonso should have just gave it back again, I thought it was harsh as he was run off the road. Better to be safe than sorry and give the position up, although I'm sure Alonso was waiting on instructions from the team.
 
dannyjo22 said:
I agree with what your saying but there has been a time recently when a driver cut the corner and advanced and didn't get penalised, struggling to remember what race? Can you remember it?

Although I agree Alonso should have just gave it back again, I thought it was harsh as he was run off the road. Better to be safe than sorry and give the position up, although I'm sure Alonso was waiting on instructions from the team.
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Schumacher did it several times to avoid being overtaken by someone. Was a few years ago now and am having a mental block about where and when...
 
SKILL said:
Problem with that is that it's a fair bit different nowadays when compared with the 90's with Benetton, McLaren and Ferrari driver systems.

With team orders banned it's very feasible for Webber to say sod it and just do his best to win, RBR can either fire him or take steps during races (or more specifically pit stops) to coerce the result, which I'm not sure the FIA would look too kindly upon...

The number 1/2 driver system does work, but only when the 2nd driver accepts to be a second driver, or they're slow enough that they're the second driver by default. Webber didn't accept (and from his actions at Silverstone Won't accept) being a number 2 driver, and there's not much RBR can do about it.

I do think Webber will be trying to get out of his contract, although other drive options are limited it's quite obvious that the only way he'll win a title at RBR is by fighting against his own team, somewhere like Renault would probably happily take him to go alongside Kubica, doubt he's more likely to win the title there but he can't exactly be less likely to win it...
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The way its going at Ferrari, they might have an empty seat at the end of the year.
 
Flibster said:
Schumacher did it several times to avoid being overtaken by someone. Was a few years ago now and am having a mental block about where and when...
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Hungaroring in 2006 IIRC and eventually made a total mess of it. As for Alonso being run off the road, he put himself in that position. Im not quite sure what he was expecting Kubica to do. The place should have been given back immediately, he was clearly quicker than Kubica and would have had many chances to get past him again. Am I right in thinking it was Singapore that a driver managed to gain a place by cutting one of the corners and had to give 2 places back because the driver he "overtook" was then passed by someone else?
 
SKILL said:
I do think Webber will be trying to get out of his contract, although other drive options are limited ...
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Are you seriously suggesting that Webber would try and leave the team with the fastest car on the track?

The only reason he is winning races is because he is in the fastest car. In an equal (or lesser) car to that of Hamilton, Button, Alonso, etc, he wouldn't get a look in.

Unless he has gone mad (or there are some serious problems within RBR that we don't know about), I doubt he would want to leave a team which are giving him a chance to win races.
 
Tysonator said:
Either is now playing all down as he may be the favoured one or RBR have put him in his place ! !
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We shall find out the answer to this question in the next 1-2 races.

The interesting thing will be if Webber and Vettel are in 1st and 2nd place, will RBR swap them around?

I'm finding this topic strange because in years gone by, it would be no big deal to ask the Webber to switch places with Vettel.

I remember a few times when Mansell actually stopped his car, to allow Patrese to win. Senna did exactly the same thing for Gerhard Berger.
 
Lair
"Sebastian received the newer front wing for reasons which were not clearly explained to me until Saturday late afternoon.
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So explained to you late on Saturday, but still felt so strongly that when you finished the race you said "not bad for a 2nd driver"

This will blow up again, nothing more than a PR exercise.
 
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