British Grand Prix 2011, Silverstone Circuit - Race 9/19

sunama said:
Surely now, the FIA have to bring out some other rule to stop RBR. Should RBR finish this weekend's GP far ahead of the opposition, the FIA have got to think of another rule, which basically pulls RBR's performance back.

They have to think of a rule quickly and implement immediately afterwards.

Is it too late to ban the flexing bodywork?
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If I were Red Bull then the first thing I would do is sandbag if my drivers were running away with the lead. So in effect, unless Vettel goes screaming around 2s quicker than everyone then there won't be much done by the FIA, and I'll bet RB will work to maintain the appearance of speed, just like theyve always previously looked to have speed in-hand.
 
EVH said:
If I were Red Bull then the first thing I would do is sandbag ..
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Normally, I do not believe or agree in sandbagging. But IF RBR are now significantly faster than the opposition (and this remains to be seen), then sandbagging may actually be an option.

Normally, I like to see a sports team/man humiliate the opposition...why should he/she/they hold back?

But in this instance, it could be beneficial for them to run conservative settings.

Bear in mind gents, we still don't know how the new ruling will reshuffle the pack. RBR may not actually have as huge an advantage as some of you are making out.
 
englishpremier said:
Lol all you lot complaining about Redbull. It's got nothing to do with Redbull. It's Renualt the engine supplier (not team)
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but renault were seen testing different exhausts so people dont think its them complaining and its likely not.

its always redbull claming the merc engine is more powerful when i dont think its ever been proved.

some german site is claiming merc can go 68% open if they dont inject fuel maybe they will try and do the same as renault ;)
 
Gah, just gone to watch the practice videos and it's doing the stupid "This content is only available in the UK" thing. ARGH. I may not be in the UK (why would I when it was chucking it down with rain today? 31C here baby!) but I've paid my ****ing TV license dammit!
 
sunama said:
You are not located in Bath?
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Bath is indeed home :), but I'm out of the country on holidays for a few weeks. 31C here in Malta today :D.


Alas I'm not Bond GeneralD :p. Funny thing is though, HMS Ocean came into the Grand Harbour this week (bit of R&R for the boys from bombing the **** out of Gaddafi), Brad Pitt and co are on the island for the filming of World War Z (bloody camera helicopter was hovering outside the hotel at 8AM yesterday the swines, and then it spent the day chasing their mock Israeli air force chopper around the island) and then this morning Vijay Mallya's boat pulled up outside the hotel (he's the owner of Force India F1).
 
TaKeN said:
The solution has always been bloody obvious, why can't the FIA just ensure all teams Exhausts exit the bodywork?
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This. Or how about a completely sealed floor with NO cutouts or apetures or anything. Or even a standardised FIA-spec exhaust?

The blown diffuser farce is making F1 look very foolish at the moment, especially in light of the 'go green' lobby that was pushing for Inline-4 engines and succeeded in getting V6 engines for 2014. Having the engine expelling exhaust gasses all the time it is running in order to feed the diffuser must produce much more CO2 than normal running?
 
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To clarify things, as of next year exhaust must exit behind the rear axle (I think) and EBD's are banned.

For this year, the FIA have decided that off throttle blown diffusers break the current regulations about moveable aerodynamic parts (just the off throttle bit), but appear to have only applied this clarification in rules to 3 of the 4 engine suppliers.

The way I see it, off throttle blowing of diffusers is illegal, but Renault engined cars are allowed to do it because they used to use an off throttle engine map in 2009 for valve cooling.

Surely anyone can see that reasoning is crazy!
 
Shimmy said:
Yup, quite a few F1 people have been saying that Red Bull are blowing less than the rival teams. Renault suspected to be the highest and McLaren not far behind.

The difference is that RBR have designed the rear of the car, its rake and floor around off throttle blowing. So even a reduction from 45% to 10% would have been a very big performance hit. But as they can now run up to 50%, they'll be unaffected increasing their advantage over the rest of the field.

McLaren on the otherhand installed the EBD at Australia as a last minute bid to get performance and immediately gained a second's worth of performance, a substantial amount considering it was basically an after thought. RBR have been developing theirs for at least 2 seasons and now we know that Renault engines have been blowing 50%+ off throttle since 2009.

What an absolute ****take this is.
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Maybe Im missing something - but if today's stuff is meant to stand (and I hope I just need to catch up and that its already been sorted) but surely this will dramatically effect NEXT year as well - until the new engine regs come in.....isnt that 2013?

So straight away RBR have a 50% advantage over majority of the field (well apart from other Renault supplied teams) for next season's cars as well, and that kind of advantage (let alone any aero they get an "added" advantage from) is impossible to gain in one one winter surely!!!
 
CS||nuTs said:
Put it this way, throwing dirt in one teams direction takes away the focus from what you are doing on your car!
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No diisrespect mate - but you would say that :)

I cant see anything Ferrari or McLaren have on their car giving them the same kind of performance advantage this iissue is giving you

(two wrongs dont make a right - no question, but it also makes sense to deal with the biggest performance perk that they are trying to ban first and then go down from there)
 
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Ha! I love how useless the FIA can be.

Great write up by Scarbs:

http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2011/07/08/10-rule-full-analysis/

So basically, the ban on hot and cold off throttle EBD maps through an enforcement of maximum 10% throttle when off throttle is actually...... a limit of 50% open throttle with both cold and hot blowing allowed!

You couldn't make this stuff up!

The fact its available to all teams is a bit of a cop out though. They have allowed technologys that Merc and Renault already use to be developed by Cosworth and Ferrari, if only there wasn't a ban on engine development! They would save more face by just dropping the whole idea and left things as they were!
 
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Skeeter said:
To clarify things, as of next year exhaust must exit behind the rear axle (I think) and EBD's are banned.

For this year, the FIA have decided that off throttle blown diffusers break the current regulations about moveable aerodynamic parts (just the off throttle bit), but appear to have only applied this clarification in rules to 3 of the 4 engine suppliers.

The way I see it, off throttle blowing of diffusers is illegal, but Renault engined cars are allowed to do it because they used to use an off throttle engine map in 2009 for valve cooling.

Surely anyone can see that reasoning is crazy!
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Would you rather that no Renualt engined cars finish another race from now until 2014 when the engine regs open up? If they can't cool the valves by using the throttle and they're not allowed to modify the engine to change the way the engine cools, what are they suppose to do?

Don't forget the Mercedes engined teams with their fired over-run. They too would have problems it they weren't given dispensation for that.
 
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FrankJH said:
No diisrespect mate - but you would say that :)

I cant see anything Ferrari or McLaren have on their car giving them the same kind of performance advantage this iissue is giving you
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but then you dont have former McLaren engineers now telling you what they are doing.
 
englishpremier said:
Would you rather that no Renualt engined cars finish another race from now until 2014 when the engine regs open up? If they can't cool the valves by using the throttle and they're not allowed to modify the engine to change the way the engine cools, what are they suppose to do?
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Im not mechanical at all - but couldnt they cool most of it externally ? Yes it would be bulky but wouldnt be included in actual engine developement
 
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