British Grand Prix 2011, Silverstone Circuit - Race 9/19

newey would probably say its only possible to design a fast car ? i guess a good car like the red bull has a fairly wide setup window anyway though
 
Why on earth would RBR not back the most likely candidate to win the championship? Plus - let's be realistic. Vettell has been prepared for this position for years - RBR have invested in him and he's the present and the future. Mark Webber, good driver though he is, is at the wrong end of his career and they are unlikely to favour him in anything they do.

It is no surprise at all that they design things around Vettell, in fact it would be a surprise if they did otherwise. I still don't think that Vettell is all that - he's lightning quick but I think he still has to show more as a racer - but they've developed a car and strategy that means he rarely has to race other drivers wheel to wheel.

I don't like the team orders, but if they're allowed then they will be used. The real beef that people seem to have is that if the positions were reversed then Webber would have been asked to allow Vettell to pass. RBR want both championships, and their strategy is that Vettell is key in delivering both.

I must say, taking a step back (gutted for JB) - this was actually a really good grand prix. Some cracking passes outside the DRS and with the drying track there were some really good displays of skill.
 
Lol.

Horner said last year he wouldn't use team orders as they were against regulations.

They are no longer against the regulations.

I fully understand Horners point of view. Vettel and Webber have hardly filled him with confidence that they can fight fairly on track without taking each other off. And telling your drivers to hold position 3 laps from the end is totally different to swapping them around on track. I get why Webber is angry, after all its not like Vettel needs the extra 3 points, but RBR don't need a double DNF from their drivers colliding either.
 
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Kenai said:
If I was Webber i'd just stop bothering, see how the TEAM get on in the constructors championship when he finishes in 11th place every race.

I'm catching up as I was out earlier but nice to see Stefano Domenicali saying the Hamilton Massa incident was just a racing incident and he saw nothing wrong with it :)
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I've been a Mclaren fan for years now, But the way Ferrari have been this weekend I'm starting to warm to them, They have just been so chilled about it all.
 
I would have done the exact same thing as Horner here. Ever since the team orders were deemed legal for Ferrari, it is simply the best way to secure WDCs and WCCs which is the team's priority. It's a shame for fans, but pretty much a no brainer for team bosses if they've got one driver who is their best bet.

That said, it is bull**** coming from redbull. They've said since day one that both drivers are treated equally and they are allowed to race each other. Then the first time that Webber threatens Vettel's position, it suddenly changes.
 
ZG002 said:
I've been a Mclaren fan for years now, But the way Ferrari have been this weekend I'm starting to warm to them, They have just been so chilled about it all.
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I think he got it spot on when he spoke to Jake after the race and said that its not good for the sport to have arguments in the public eye. Its refreshing for a team to just keep quiet and letting their racing do the talking.
 
Setroc said:
That said, it is bull**** coming from redbull. They've said since day one that both drivers are treated equally and they are allowed to race each other. Then the first time that Webber threatens Vettel's position, it suddenly changes.
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Not really. If Webber had been asked to move over and let Vettel past then maybe, but thats not what happened. They were told to just hold the positions they were in after 95% of the race. Its unfortunate for Webber, but it was the right choice to make. Imagine what we would be saying if Horner hadn't done that and they had taken each other off?
 
Skeeter said:
Not really. If Webber had been asked to move over and let Vettel past then maybe, but thats not what happened. They were told to just hold the positions they were in after 95% of the race. Its unfortunate for Webber, but it was the right choice to make. Imagine what we would be saying if Horner hadn't done that and they had taken each other off?
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I don't disagree with the point you're making, but you can't use the 'ahead for 95% of the race' argument. There are no points for finishing first at 95% distance, and Webber was clearly quicker. There are plenty (majority?) of examples of teams using orders to let a driver pass another, and it was on this very rare occassion that orders were used visibly to prevent it from happening.

That's one of the reasons why I think that a lot of fans have a problem with the rules and how they were used today. They prevented a clearly quicker driver from making progress.

The manner in which Horner dealt with it was poor. He's normally accomplished in front of the camera, but today was not prepared and came across poorly. In fairness I think any team boss would have been the same today, after the manic weekend every team has had.

Except Ferrari of course. They were sublime all weekend.
 
NightSt@lk3r said:
Rubbish, it was the cocked up pit stop and Vettels severe lack of ability to race and overtake that lost him the win.
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When Vettel was in clear air, Alonso was still lapping faster.

Alonso absolutely dominated this race, where he was behind Vettel on the first pit stop, but was around 20 second ahead of him, by the end of the race.

Vettel, pace-wise, could do nothing about Alonso. The fact that Vettel got stuck behind Hamilton made little difference.
 
Alonso easily had the better of Vettel and would have never mind the pit stop, Even RBR will admit that.

As Sunama says he dominated the race and well and truly deserved the win.
 
Red bull would get a lot more credit if they were just open about their structure. They have a number 1 and 2 drivers and they aren't treated equally. They've been caught out a few times now... Even now horner has said in future they can race.... Until this situation comes around again and he will give orders again.
 
Goksly said:
Red bull would get a lot more credit if they were just open about their structure.
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This is true.

Horner and No.1/No.2 Driver Strategy
The problem with Horner is that he lies too much.

If you are going to operate a No.1/No.2 system, then just come out and say it. Many teams in the past have used the No.1/No.2 system and although fans didnt like it, they accepted the reasons behind it's use. Unfortunately, with Horner, he says they don't operate a No1/No.2 system, yet when it comes to on-track action, his (and his team's) actions would suggest otherwise.

The team orders which Horner gave were 100% correct, but he has to come clean and explain that Webber is the No.2 and that in order to score the maximum points in both Championships, the team have decided that the No.1/No.2 system shall be in place for 2011.

Hamilton
Notice that the current WDC table is beginning to look very similar to how last year finished. The top 4 drivers now comprise of the 2 RBR drivers, Hamilton and Alonso.

For those of you stating that Hamilton is no longer as good as he used to be...well, Alonso and the 2 RBR drivers are the only drivers ahead of him in the table now (same as last year).

2011 WDC
Now that Alonso and Ferrari have got their mojo back, do we think that Alonso is now going to give Vettel a run for his money? Will he be able to do to Vettel, as he did to Webber last year?
 
Sunama, I'm not a fan of Ferrari.

But I'd rather Alonson take the WDC than Vettel any day. Last year was the opposite after the team orders incident in Germany.
 
if he was clever he would have came out with "maintain the gap" meant they shoulds give each other room and not ram each other off the track , i never said they couldnt overtake.
 
My Conclusion

I like the new Silverstone :).


McLaren: I'm not gonna claim to do your job for you, but seriously how hard is it to put fuel in a car? I know the lollypop man releasing Button before the wheel man put his hand up was a genuine mistake, but seriously a car needs fuel. Even I know that!

Ferrari: Well I think it's obvious who benefited with the whole mapping/diffuser stuff.

Red Bull: What happened to "We don't do team orders"? I totally get EJs reason's for team orders as you don't want to take each other out (though a "Seb, Mark is faster than you. Do you understand?" would also have got you a 2-3), but don't claim you don't do team orders when you infact do.

Force India: You have two drivers. Learn the difference.


Hamilton: I love you. Drive it like you stole it :D.

Webber: Good drive, unlucky with the team orders.

Vettel: Ah poor little Vettel had to do an overtake :eek:. Spent a while behind that McLaren didn't you... nearly as if you can't overtake and only do well when you start from P1.



Liked the forum. Could see Goldie just waiting to get on! And that Hats/Watch guy is a complete slimey ****. Bet it's Bernie that pays him!
 
Rbr will win the championship... They have built up too much of a lead and even if alonso wins every race, vettle would be second. With the regs going back, Rbr will continue to be close enough to the front to secure what they've got.
 
Westyfield2 said:
Vettel: Ah poor little Vettel had to do an overtake :eek:. Spent a while behind that McLaren didn't you... nearly as if you can't overtake and only do well when you start from P1.
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I dont get all the Vettel hate?
He's a genuine nice guy with talent, he's really young and just doing his best.
Its not his fault RBR is (was?) dramatically faster then the competition for two years now.. what do you expect him to do, throw the race away because he feels guilty?
 
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