Can a vegan diet make me strong. Let's find out.

Skeptic said:
Nate, bro (and by that I mean...),

1) Please don't forget we have all seen your pics and you will forgive us for being skeptical about your stats - if you can get a vid of you doing strict OHP of 52.5 (you suggest for 5x5 in OP, but 1x5 would be a good start), for example, then I'll eat my words happily.

2) Don't get mad when people say 'shredded wheat isn't protein' if you have listed it under protein sources. It doesn't matter what you have with it, as you didn't write it down so we couldn't assess - as it stands what you have written suggests a ridiculously poor understanding of diet (despite your protests otherwise), and...

3) Nobody here is perfect, we all accept humbly that there are people more knowledgeable about different aspects of the game - leave your ego at the door or you will soon either give up, or damage yourself beyond repair.

Should you become a huge vegan bodybuilder then we will, no doubt, respect the knowledge/results you have, but until then stop acting the clown and appreciate people putting the time in to guide you. If you can't then I guess we're not going to get along all that well...
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Thats actually a decent post well made, tho fed to a troll hope you didnt use any animal products in it....

but in seriousness, its borderline insulting when people like nate come along and reject advice from the few decent lifters here and spout utter nonsense only then to defend their position like it has value. We all see 100 nates come and go day after day, they all think they are gods gift to something, usually typing things, and lack the basic character to be humble and take on board good advice. You cant really expect to get any respect amongst people who lift behaving this way, because poeople who lift let their results and their stats do the talking, and as a by product they also dont need to take nonsense and idiocy from anyone. Fact is you go to a powerlifting or strongman meet as a little noob with no mass, you can walk up to the biggest group of guys in the room, with respect and modesty and they will be as nice as pie and very helpful. But you wade in with arrogance and stupidity and they are gonna knock you the hell down. This is a geek forum full of beta and sub beta males in the main. Lots of unfounded ego, self importance and borderline autistic traits. Can you really expect to wander into the most Alpha section full of people that you wouldnt say **** to in real life, spout your nonsense and expect to get a fair hearing? No you shouldnt. You have been given all the advice you need to make some progress and prove yourself. But until you do your just another idiot wasting our time.
 
Skillmister said:
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wedgie said:
They've been massively helpful to you over at veganbodybuilding.com haven't they....

http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=35519
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Stalking me eh. That's a new thread and not the only thread I've made.

Ultra_Extreme said:
lol quality snooping, tbf they probs all died from lack of actual food by now. You probs get one 14 year old girl show up and post, with frail fingers and a good heart, till she either also dies or discovers bacon.
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Keep that motivation coming!

mrthingyx

I'm one of those people. I love milk cheese and eggs, I didn't give them up without making sure I get those nutrients from plants. I know quite a lot about nutrition myself.

B12 I get from flax seed, fortified cereal and I get omega from flax seed and nuts, especially hemp seeds which contain all three. Cali flower there's four, sprouts there's five, walnuts six, olive oil seven and many more. Did you know when animal protein enters the human body it makes our blood acidic instantaneously but our blood can't stay acidic for long or else we die. Our body has to figure out how to neutralize the acidity, through phosphate. The only one source in the body is our bones. So it takes the phosphate right off our bones to neutralize the acidity and we pee out the calcium. That's why society that consume the most amount of animal protein have the worse rates of osteoporosis bone fractures and cancers. I might know a lot more than you think.
 
Skeptic.
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I know I'm a skinny guy, but then I get told mass doesn't equal strength. Okay you want 52.5kg OHP you will get it.

Shredded wheat does have some protein in it though, 11.6g per 100gram. Okay it's not exactly a steak but it's part of my balanced protein intake.

Okay let's drop egos at the door, I'm not your enemy. No more bull****. I don't think Freefaller is coming back though.

Ultra_Extreme
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Drop the alpha and beta crap. Do all big power lifters think they are superior to everyone else? Don't belittle people. I have had these kind of discussions with big guys in real life and they are all very nice people. I don't get called stupid, or idiot etc. Treat me as you would want me to treat you. Set an example here. I repeat again I'm not anyone's enemy here or out to cause debate. That just happens naturally as it's a controversial diet. This is why I don't want to talk about the diet side. So let's forget all that and give this thread a rest for a while, don't post in it if you really think I'm an idiot. I'm not gods gift or anything special and I put my hand up right now and say nearly every guy here knows more about me than lifting.
 
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Nate Silvers said:
Did you know when animal protein enters the human body it makes our blood acidic instantaneously but our blood can't stay acidic for long or else we die.
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Not quite what I would describe as textbook science, but I understand your interpretation. ;)

Nate Silvers said:
Our body has to figure out how to neutralize the acidity, through phosphate. The only one source in the body is our bones. So it takes the phosphate right off our bones to neutralize the acidity and we pee out the calcium. That's why society that consume the most amount of animal protein have the worse rates of osteoporosis bone fractures and cancers. I might know a lot more than you think.
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And this is the problem with your threads: you are doing what vegans accuse people that eat meat of doing. And just what is that? Taking a very narrow interpretation of a data set and applying it to a whole population.

The mechanism you describe above is correct, but your understanding of the cause is not. The problem with Western diets is not necessarily the meat, but the balance in nutrients. And guess what? The reason a lot of vegans and vegetarians suffer (I'm not saying all) is lack of a balanced diet. Funny that. ;)

The actual reason behind the statistical link between high-meat Western diets and osteoporosis is copper: animal skeletal muscle is very low in copper which means that the body doesn't process the derived nutrition well. One of the ways to avoid this is to eat fish and shellfish (z0mg!), leafy green veg, nuts, etc. Or offal (which is high in copper). ;)

The fun part of all this is - as Western diets get higher in processed foods, often meat based-ones - they lose their variation. A similar statistical symptom of this is obesity in Western nations, and even the incidence of Type 2 diabetes.

Both sides are as bad as each other in spouting utter rubbish: you are as much a victim of this as other detractors of veganism are. The key thing is being aware of this and making sure that your 'research' is looking at the basic causes, rather than the resulting interpretations. :)

So. Please stop telling people you are right and other people are wrong and you will find a lot more people willing to listen to your perspectives. :cool:
 
Just had a browse through this thread. Not a lifter (at the moment) but I would have to argue that the notion of dietary/animal protein leading to osteoporosis is incorrect.

Physiologically, our blood pH titrates up and down throughout the day. There are various buffers to a sharp change in pH (otherwise we'd all be seriously ill or dead), through the use of blood proteins, red blood cells, breathing and kidney excretion.

Also, in a lab experiment, a low pH solution (acidic) will lead to a breakdown of calcium salts (e.g. hydroxyapatite salts as in bone) as the calcium is in something which it has a greater solubility. This is termed an "in vitro" (or in a lab) phenomenon. This, however due to a variety of factors does not occur physiologically.

I know I have taken this discussion on a tangent, but I felt that it was important to discuss that protein intake (animal or vegetal, no source is superior than the other), along with calcium and vitamin D is very important for good bone health.
 
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Ultra_Extreme said:
Can you really expect to wander into the most Alpha section full of people that you wouldnt say **** to in real life, spout your nonsense and expect to get a fair hearing? No you shouldnt. You have been given all the advice you need to make some progress and prove yourself. But until you do your just another idiot wasting our time.
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mrthingyx

I don't need textbook science or a medical study to show me what people are dying of but for the record every study you can produce that says humans need meat, cheese, milk and eggs, I can find two.

2 to 1 ratio, showing that meat, cheese, milk and eggs are responsible for every major disease.

But you're right both sides are as bad as each other. We all know medical studies can be manipulated both ways. So let's scrap the studies. We don't need them.

All I have to do is pay attention to this society of meat, milk and egg eaters that everyone lives in. My cousin has type one diabetes and is living off insulin shots the rest of his life, grandad had a heart operation to save his life. I know people who have died from strokes. My girlfriend, she got asthma too now. What's the one thing we all have in common besides the air we breathe and the water we drink? Meat, milk, cheese and eggs. Animal products all year long. Yeah you can attribute some of the cancers to pollution. But how you gonna blame obesity on pollution?, strokes and diabetes?

I'm not here to tell you you're wrong, I'm just tired of all the lies from the meat and dairy industry. You don't have listen to my perspectives, but most people don't even know how cruel the milk industry is. Even vegetarians don't realize there is more cruelty in a glass of milk than a steak.

The Chemist

Thanks for the input and the information about calcium. If dairy and animal protein leading to osteoporosis is incorrect. If people are getting enough calcium from dairy and meat then how come there's osteoporosis at all? If the ph and acidity levels do not occur physiologically then calcium isn't getting peed out and there is no calcium problem? The dairy industry said themselves the main reason they exist, is so you can get calcium.

If people are getting enough calcium from dairy and meat then how come there's osteoporosis at all? In the UK and USA the meat eating society, the egg eaters the cheese eaters. People tell me they get everything they need from meat and dairy. Then why in every city is there a shop selling calcium supplements? I thought everybody was getting calcium from the animal products. That's what the meat and dairy people say?
 
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Nate Silvers said:
All I have to do is pay attention to this society of meat, milk and egg eaters that everyone lives in. My cousin has type one diabetes and is living off insulin shots the rest of his life, grandad had a heart operation to save his life. I know people who have died from strokes. My girlfriend, she got asthma too now. What's the one thing we all have in common besides the air we breathe and the water we drink? Meat, milk, cheese and eggs. Animal products all year long. Yeah you can attribute some of the cancers to pollution. But how you gonna blame obesity on pollution?, strokes and diabetes?
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I assure you I'm not trolling, I wouldn't waste my time trolling I'm trying to show you what's killing people. What's the number one killer of humans who choose to eat meat, cheese, milk and egg?

Heart disease from clogged arteries, atherosclerosis.
 
Nate you can't take the extreme of people who eat to an unhealthy nature and say meat is bad for you!!!

I bet most the people here who lift, exercise and eat those foods are healthier than you right now.....
 
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