Canadian Grand Prix 2012, Montréal - Race 7/20

[sunama]

He really needs to take control back of the racing team though.

I have to disagree with this one.
Ron Dennis was past it when he quit. He needed replacing.
He fired the best driver in F1.
A good boss would do what it takes to make sure that the best driver in F1 stays, putting his personal feelings aside. Dennis was more interested in playing happy families, than having the best possible driver in his team.

Would Barcelona get rid of Messi, if Messi started acting like a spoiled brat OR would they "manage" him and make sure that he straightens up and still plays well?

Unless Alonso was going to compensate McLaren (and we are talking HUGE compensation), I would never have allowed him to leave. To have Hamilton and Alonso in the same team is just mouth-watering, but requires a good manager.

2007 remains possibly, the best example of how not manage a (top-class, petulant) driver. Dennis has a history of doing this, but Alonso is the best example as at the time, Alonso was the best driver in the World. In the past he has done it to Montoya, as well as Coulthard.

 

[Skeeter]

Drs isn't available to everyone.
It needs to be gotten rid off.

How about actually overtaking and defense not push to pass.
The leader has no chance to use drs, person behind sales past and that's that.

What happened to the days where a car in trouble could hold position and defend for the last few laps. That was out of your seat, screaming at the tv. Now 20 years later, no such defense can be mounted, you're screwed,

Stick with them for a lap and then get your turn with the DRS.

 

[sunama]

Schumacher should have waited for the detection point and took him with DRS (as Hamilton did to Alonso).

Exactly.

MSc, in his prime, would certainly have worked this out and made sure that the overtake stuck.

MSc fans have to realise that the MSc of 2012 is totally different to the MSc in his first career. His streak of bad luck is also quite astounding. Though, luck is all part and package of F1 (and most other sports).

 

[Glaucus]

Stick with them for a lap and then get your turn with the DRS.

Fantastic, so you don't want over taking, no defensive driving.

Drs is ****, was **** and will always be a **** idea.

It isn't fair, it isn't good and the biggest problem up has been overcome with rule changes anyway. Namely following distance.

It is also nothing like Kees or turbo where everyone has use of it.

 

[Skeeter]

You what? DRS isn't available for 90% of the lap, you still have to defend there. Any why not try and pull out 1 second over the rest of the lap to keep yourself safe.

DRS does not gift people overtakes, it give them overtakes on people they are outright faster than. Never has DRS given a slower driver a pass on a faster driver.

 

[Glaucus]

Of course it gifts people over takes, we saw it Sunday.
Catching should not mean automatic overtake. Several people have also said why bother getting in a tangle when you can breeze past in DRS zone.

There is ZERO good about DRS.
It detracts from the racing and wrecks the true racing.

I tell you what, let's get rid of racing and just do time trials, that's what DRS, it only let's faster people get past. That isn't racing, it's not purely about speed and never has been.

 

[utajoker]

I have to disagree with this one.
Ron Dennis was past it when he quit. He needed replacing.
He fired the best driver in F1.
A good boss would do what it takes to make sure that the best driver in F1 stays

he kept Hamilton in the team didn't he ?

 

[Skeeter]

But you just said it yourself, you have to catch to be able to pass, meaning you are faster.

As an alternative to races filled with Button/Heikki traffic jams all afternoon long I'd much rather have DRS.

Of course the best solution is making cars that follow better and pass easier, but a massive rule change like that would be like trying to get a class of 5 year olds to agree on their favorate sprouts to eat, its never going to happen.

DRS is the lesser of 2 evils, and I still stand by that its only ever helped people who are already faster than the person they are passing. It's never given someone a pass who wasn't already in a position to do so.

 

[Glaucus]

I don't care if your faster, racing isn't just about faster, it's about setting yourself up and getting passed. Racing is not catch person in front and press a button. If you want purple speed you want time trials.

We don't need rule changes, it's already gone from around 1.5 seconds down to about 0.3seconda. The rules have been implemented already.

Stand by it all you want, I'm not disagreeing with that. It makes no difference if the one using drs is faster, it isn't racing, has no place in racing and has made so many opportunities boring and predictable and sucked all the fun out of seeing someone close up.

 

[smr]

I'm not against drs but one of the problems with it is the fact that drivers just wait until the drs aactivation on certain circuits rather than try and overtake in other places.

 

[Skeeter]

Ok, but on the flip side should charging up behind someone only to be stuck behind them for 20 laps due to the nature of the cars and not your skill also be considered racing?

You seem to be under the impression that before DRS F1 was filled with people overtaking left right and centre. The fact is, it wasn't. There was a major problem with overtaking to the extent that the FIA felt the need to form a committee who's sole aim was to increase overtaking. That is not the actions of a governing body who though things were just fine as they were.

 

[Glaucus]

Ok, but on the flip side should charging up behind someone only to be stuck behind them for 20 laps due to the nature of the cars and not your skill also be considered racing?

.

It's not perfect but it's at least racing, unlike drs.
But the rules have been changed, the results are there. They panicked and introduced DRS one yeah before the rules actually worked and the increasing bans in the following years has kept the following distance decreasing.

Fix the rules, don't implant rubbish.

 

[Skeeter]

The aero rules that came in for 2009 and drastically reduced following distances was 1 year before DRS. As engineers have clawed back downforce, especially with EBDs, following distances have if anything increased again over the last 3 years.

F1 cars are by design built to go at their fastest when in clean air. And on top of that we line them up on the grid in speed order. Its a wonder we get any overtaking at all. On paper it should just be a race long gradual spread of the whole field.

 

[Glaucus]

They haven't opened back up in the slightest and 2009 rules had holes in them which offset most of the gains that the rule writers where hopping for, which have since be closed off.

 

[arknor]

DRS does not gift people overtakes, it give them overtakes on people they are outright faster than. Never has DRS given a slower driver a pass on a faster driver.

yea like kobayashi's overtake on schumacher after schumacher had just nailed him at the hairpin :rolleyes:

next year they need to move the drs detection zone before the hairpin and leave the activation zone on the other side or put it at a location where theres usually no overtaking anyway

 

[Psycho Ned]

Probably be shot down for this suggestion but would giving everyone a limited number of DRS 'opens' a race which they can use whenever be a better solution? Say 10 a race or something.

There would be a bit of cat and mouse over whether or not the guy behind would use his and maybe you could hold onto them until the end of the race and use them to make a few passes or early on to gain track position.

There's probably an obvious reason I'm missing why this would be a **** idea though

 

[arknor]

why dont they just scrap drs and give them a bigger kers battery but with electronics locking out the last 30% of kers and it can only be used past 30% if your within 1 second of the car infront.

still an advantage to the attacker but the defender isnt a sitting duck

or is that far to sensible? every car has a transponder and an ecu it cant be that hard

 

[Skeeter]

yea like kobayashi's overtake on schumacher after schumacher had just nailed him at the hairpin :rolleyes:

next year they need to move the drs detection zone before the hairpin and leave the activation zone on the other side or put it at a location where theres usually no overtaking anyway

If Schumacher was faster he would have been within a second the following lap and got him right back.

Probably be shot down for this suggestion but would giving everyone a limited number of DRS 'opens' a race which they can use whenever be a better solution? Say 10 a race or something.

There would be a bit of cat and mouse over whether or not the guy behind would use his and maybe you could hold onto them until the end of the race and use them to make a few passes or early on to gain track position.

There's probably an obvious reason I'm missing why this would be a **** idea though

A1GP tried this. It was quite good. I think some other series still do it. Super League Formula does it too I think. It meant if you had a good car you could save up your boosts, and if you were a bit slower you had a number of chances to try and defend.

The 2014 regulations may allow something like this. KERS is doubled and can be used to either increase the power evenly over the lap, or provide lumps of power when needed.

 

[arknor]

If Schumacher was faster he would have been within a second the following lap and got him right back.

i believe he pitted or retired shortly after.

anyway the point was you claimed DRS had never helped a slower car overtake a faster one.

many people said schumacher should have just overtook him at the drs zone instead but then whats the use of DRS if its depriving us of "real" overtakes ones that take skill and balls to pull off

 

[Skeeter]

You 'beleive'...? Your usually the man with the stats. What were the comparative lap times between them for the 3 laps before and after the overtake (or until Schumacher pitted)?