Canadian Grand Prix 2012, Montréal - Race 7/20

Mr Men said:
No they were not I suggest you re-watch the race instead of making things up to suit, plus the DRS gave the passing car a boost meaning there was no fight into the final chicane. DRS helped every move down that straight.
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Alongside by the time they reached the activation point, and a couple of seconds a lap faster on far superior condition tyres...

Yes DRS helped, I've never denied that, but it helped overtakes that were always going to happen.

Unless you think Hamiltons charge being halted by being stuck behind a car numerous seconds a lap slower for 10 laps would have been good racing? Oh no I forgot, your a Ferrari fan, of course you would have.

I've noticed that peoples views on DRS are swayed heavily depending on which side of the situation their favourite driver was on.

(awaits the Hamilton fanboy claims... :rolleyes:)
 
The Hamilton/Alonso overtake was an odd one, he got alongside before DRS opened, but he'd also stopped passing Alonso, they both basically got to a point where they were pretty fast and accelerating slowly at about the same speed. Without DRS he might actually not of passed him there at all as Alonso had the inside and could have forced Hamilton to be cautious and let him go first.

However he would and could have gotten him at multiple other points around the track and unfortunately was waiting for the DRS zone to take him more safely.... though without DRS he still would have likely waited for the straight rather than risk crashing in other parts of the track.

DRS in general does suck, it is easy mode overtaking, but without it in the past couple years we've had a painful amount of people being stuck and being unable to overtake.

Though its also worth remembering that is in large part down to tyres. Braking late into a corner might mean an overtake, but frequently means locking up and always means going off line into dirty area's which again can hurt the tyres.

As Webber said yesterday, he didn't know if he should push, overtake, but decrease the life in his tyres or hope they'd pit soon and not get held up too much, it worked out very poorly for him.

The problem is overtaking, pushing extra hard for a few laps, late moves into corners, going off the racing line are all hurting cars so badly in terms of ultimate race pace, that overtaking isn't always the best option when someone is stuck behind another car... that realistically is the key thing to fix. There shouldn't ever be a penalty for trying to overtake, sure you screw up the move there should be, but tyres need to be able to handle some harder cornering, and need to not fall apart and lead to going off line being such a problem.


Then again there is also the simple respect of drivers issue. Schumi almost put Barichello into a wall(but didn't), but also realised Hamilton had him at Monaco and gave up the fight, letting Hamilton pass safely, he fought up to the point it wasn't safe to do so and stopped.

Hamilton overtakes other drivers in the same way and they cause a crash, showing no respect for other drivers safety, just "if you try and overtake your race is over, so its not even worth trying" , making overtaking too costly to be worthwhile.

Rules, punishments, tyres, aero, it should all be geared to making overtaking a fundamental part of the race, not something that has to be seriously weighed up against the downsides of if a driver will randomly cut you off, or if the tyres will cost you more later on than the overtake gains you now.
 
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drunkenmaster said:
DRS in general does suck, it is easy mode overtaking, but without it in the past couple years we've had a painful amount of people being stuck and being unable to overtake.
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This is the key point people don't (or choose not to) understand. I'm not trying to say DRS is fantastically wonderfull. Its far from it. Its artificial, its changing the way people think about overtaking, and its making overtakes that could be epic into quite simple ones.

However, its far better than the alternative, which is races utterly ruined and turned into processions as people get endlessly stuck behind slower drivers.

It is the lesser of 2 evils. It is by no means the ideal solution.
 
Skeeter said:
Alongside by the time they reached the activation point, and a couple of seconds a lap faster on far superior condition tyres...

Yes DRS helped, I've never denied that, but it helped overtakes that were always going to happen.

Unless you think Hamiltons charge being halted by being stuck behind a car numerous seconds a lap slower for 10 laps would have been good racing? Oh no I forgot, your a Ferrari fan, of course you would have.

I've noticed that peoples views on DRS are swayed heavily depending on which side of the situation their favourite driver was on.

(awaits the Hamilton fanboy claims... :rolleyes:)
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Jesus you do like to take a comment, spin it around, mix it up a bit then come out with some rubbish don't you. What has who I support got to do with anything? again you just seem to try and deflect anything and turn it around onto someone else, it's a pretty nasty habit you have.
 
drunkenmaster said:
The Hamilton/Alonso overtake was an odd one, he got alongside before DRS opened, but he'd also stopped passing Alonso, they both basically got to a point where they were pretty fast and accelerating slowly at about the same speed. Without DRS he might actually not of passed him there at all as Alonso had the inside and could have forced Hamilton to be cautious and let him go first.

However he would and could have gotten him at multiple other points around the track and unfortunately was waiting for the DRS zone to take him more safely.... though without DRS he still would have likely waited for the straight rather than risk crashing in other parts of the track.
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Indeed, glad some other fans see the same things I do, the DRS greatly helped as coming out of the slipstream without it would leave it a drag to the chicane, not having a boost just to breeze past and take the normal racing line.
 
Are you saying that without DRS Hamilton wouldn't have got past Alonso, or that without DRS Hamilton would have got past Alonso elsewhere in a more 'natural' way?
 
Glaucus said:
If there is such an issue which they can't find, just change the chassis and see what happens. I'm not sure it would solve the issue. But only time will tell. It might just be one of those things where the driver can't handle the new rules. It's happened before. But then it might just be an issue which they can solve.
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if he cant handle the rules - how come he won the Aussie GP (quite comfortably given the safety car near the end) and came 2nd in the 3rd GP of the year to Rosberg (and the 1st of McLaren's dodgy pitstops)
 
FrankJH said:
if he cant handle the rules - how come he won the Aussie GP (quite comfortably given the safety car near the end) and came 2nd in the 3rd GP of the year to Rosberg (and the 1st of McLaren's dodgy pitstops)
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Agreed, in the 'old' days this scenario wouldn't have dragged on so long because they would have gone testing and swapped cars to find if there was a flaw in the mechanicals or in Jensons head or some part of the equipment he just does not like.

Right now it's reminding me of Zinardi floundering with the brakes at Williams. He's shown he can handle this car and regs well enough. Yeah he's not ever going to regularly beat LH on saturday but he has never struggled this badly on sundays that I can remember. They must have some idea whats changed on the car from oz to now.
 
Maybe due to McLaren having an ourtight car advantage at that point?

Whatever the problems are, McLaren's attempts to solve them have only seemed to make things worse. He's gone backward, quickly, and rather than take the Alonso approach of knuckling down and focusing on fixing things, he's just started moaning. I expect a number of other drivers would have refused to do the PR stuff and demanded they go testing if they had issues to sort.

There's been a bit of a role reversal in terms of mentality between the McLaren drivers this year.
 
Skeeter said:
Are you saying that without DRS Hamilton wouldn't have got past Alonso, or that without DRS Hamilton would have got past Alonso elsewhere in a more 'natural' way?
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Think he is saying it would have made it more interesting & more exciting watching them trying to overtake properly & not just pressing a button to sail past with no hope of the other car defending it.

DRS is rubbish & I dunno why people will defend it. There are other ways to get more overtaking in the sport.
 
Skeeter said:
Are you saying that without DRS Hamilton wouldn't have got past Alonso, or that without DRS Hamilton would have got past Alonso elsewhere in a more 'natural' way?
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I am saying it would have been much more exciting as a F1 fan to see if Lewis could pass 2 double world champs without DRS, it's not always about Lewis. As I have already said the MS incident showed all that was wrong with DRS, he would have been better not to make a real overtaking move that took some balls and waited to push to pass, as a F1 fan I find that ridiculous.
 
Mr Men said:
I am saying it would have been much more exciting as a F1 fan to see if Lewis could pass 2 double world champs without DRS, it's not always about Lewis. As I have already said the MS incident showed all that was wrong with DRS, he would have been better not to make a real overtaking move that took some balls and waited to push to pass, as a F1 fan I find that ridiculous.
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Then stop watching :).
 
But if they moved the DRS detection line to before the hairpin, it would mean someone could overtake at the hairpin, be in front coming onto the back straight, and then get DRS, which is rather unfair.

I've actually never understood why the detection and activation points can't be in the same place? It can't take 5+ seconds for the ECU to calculate if the gap is less than a second and activate DRS, can it?

If that was the case in Canada then those overtakes that were done before the detection line would have given the defending driver the DRS, which would have been rather interesting...

Its worth noting though, this only applied to tracks where the area between the detection and activation points is an actual overtaking spot. On a number of tracks it isn't so this isn't a problem.
 
Memphis said:
Then stop watching :).
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How ridiculous. So anyone who dislikes any part of the rules should also stop watching?

Don't like DRS stop watching
Don't like the tyres stop watching.
Don't like that teams don't run in q3 to save tyres etc etc

Anyway finally found Rons views on the tyres, Jenson, Lewis contract etc....

 
Skeeter said:
Processions aren't that interesting either...
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Funny cause when it's Monaco they bang on about Senna holding Mansell, when it's Spain they go on about Gilles holding 6 cars LOL

If you think DRS is great and adds to the sport then that's fine, I don't and I won't be changing my mind, as neither will you so it's pointless running in circles again.
 
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