Cancel culture expands to real life in the USA

[Colonel_Klinck]

Have you seen her tweets? If she was white and had written those tweets referring to black people instead she would have likely been "cancelled" already.

So you want her cancelled for things she said years ago but are up in arms when people are cancelled for things they said years ago. Got it. Also that isn't what they are attempting to cancel her for now.

If you are there as a representative to your country why shouldn't your county be able to specify the terms.

If that person didn't want to represent their country which would include things like supporting the flag, national anthem and a general showing of respect to your fellow citizens, then they are welcome to compete as an individual without state funded support.

As for the things she said in the past, plenty of white folk have been cancelled for far less, and for things that were said much longer ago as well.

Who specifies the terms? Nikki Hayley and other conservative politicians get to set those terms? I thought this was supposed to be the land of the free where free speech was paramount?

Who says she doesn't want to represent any part of the country? Where is her fellow citizens respect for her right to free speech/protest? The hypocrisy is so thick you could float in it. It is just being used as a political weapon by politicians because they know it works with their base. I wouldn't have such a problem with that if it wasn't the same people claiming cancel culture is ruining their country. You don't get to have it both ways.

 

[dlockers]

If you are there as a representative to your country why shouldn't your county be able to specify the terms.

If that person didn't want to represent their country which would include things like supporting the flag, national anthem and a general showing of respect to your fellow citizens, then they are welcome to compete as an individual without state funded support.

As for the things she said in the past, plenty of white folk have been cancelled for far less, and for things that were said much longer ago as well.

I think North Korea has these rules; China too.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

Spoken by another person who hates their country

This reply was as predictable as the sun rise and set. Either comply with what I think/say patriotism and love of a country is or you hate this country and all it stands for. Again the hypocrisy is laughably thick. You are worse than all you claim to stand against and posts like this prove it.

 

[Raz]

So you want her cancelled for things she said years ago but are up in arms when people are cancelled for things they said years ago. Got it. Also that isn't what they are attempting to cancel her for now.

I'm not usually so direct but what are you on about?

I've not said anything about who should be cancelled, but made an observation. The reality is that if white people make general statements concerning non-whites then the reaction is far worse than when black people make similar comments (possibly slowly changing though). How is it that a white person can be racist but not a black person?

In any case, in most cases tweets from when people were younger are usually silly throwaway comments that don't necessarily reflect the person they are now. They shouldn't necessarily be "cancelled" unless they are clearly hate filled or call for violence against other groups.

By the way, imagine the reaction if a man had tweeted he was going to "rape a sandwich"....or a white person beginning a tweet "these black children..."

 

[Deleted User 234324]

I think North Korea has these rules; China too.

Yet both countries you mention make no attempt at all to hide the fact they are openly racist.

So why compare them to Western countries that are more often than not very much anti racism, and the longer this intentional division goes on the worse this story of incident will get until it reaches breaking point. Then what happens. I'm sure neither side of the political spectrum would like the outcome.

 

[dlockers]

Yet both countries you mention make no attempt at all to hide the fact they are openly racist.

So why compare them to Western countries that are more often than not very much anti racism, and the longer this intentional division goes on the worse this story of incident will get until it reaches breaking point. Then what happens. I'm sure neither side of the political spectrum would like the outcome.

Sorry I thought you weren't anti-racist, you were just not-racist?

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

I'm not usually so direct but what are you on about?

I've not said anything about who should be cancelled, but made an observation. The reality is that if white people make general statements concerning non-whites then the reaction is far worse than when black people make similar comments (possibly slowly changing though). How is it that a white person can be racist but not a black person?

In any case, in most cases tweets from when people were younger are usually silly throwaway comments that don't necessarily reflect the person they are now. They shouldn't necessarily be "cancelled" unless they are clearly hate filled or call for violence against other groups.

By the way, imagine the reaction if a man had tweeted he was going to "rape a sandwich"....or a white person beginning a tweet "these black children..."

Is she being cancelled for those tweets? Yes/No?

The answer is no, she is being cancelled for turning her back on a piece of cloth. Those tweets are just serving as extra ammunition to further justify cancelling her. They don't have anything to do with the "she's unpatriotic so lets cancel her" message.

As for the tweets themselves, clearly they weren't a sensible thing to tweet, especially if you are doing something in the public eye like sports. However this is the US and not the UK and freedom of speech is protected. She isn't a politician where speech can and should carry political consequences. You don't like her speech in those tweets, I don't like it either. Again though the hypocrisy of attempting to cancel her by politicians who claim cancel culture is an evil on their society is laughable. They should be standing up for her right to protest if they were genuine, clearly they are as far from genuine as you can get.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

Yet both countries you mention make no attempt at all to hide the fact they are openly racist.

So why compare them to Western countries that are more often than not very much anti racism, and the longer this intentional division goes on the worse this story of incident will get until it reaches breaking point. Then what happens. I'm sure neither side of the political spectrum would like the outcome.

China and North Korea also have rules on what you can and can't say about your country and what patriotism is and that you will comply to their definition of it. That is more what I took from that post and it certainly applies here. She is being told to comply to someone's definition of patriotism or be stripped of her place in the Olympics.

 

[Raz]

Is she being cancelled for those tweets? Yes/No?

The answer is no, she is being cancelled for turning her back on a piece of cloth. Those tweets are just serving as extra ammunition to further justify cancelling her. They don't have anything to do with the "she's unpatriotic so lets cancel her" message.

As for the tweets themselves, clearly they weren't a sensible thing to tweet, especially if you are doing something in the public eye like sports. However this is the US and not the UK and freedom of speech is protected. She isn't a politician where speech can and should carry political consequences. You don't like her speech in those tweets, I don't like it either. Again though the hypocrisy of attempting to cancel her by politicians who claim cancel culture is an evil on their society is laughable. They should be standing up for her right to protest if they were genuine, clearly they are as far from genuine as you can get.

Ok I see what happened, you reacted to something I didn't say.

What I did say was that if she was white and had written those tweets then she would have been "cancelled" already.

I didn't state anywhere that I agreed with the politicians and others response to her protest - I support the right to protest and think it's a freedom we should all have.

Of course there's hypocrisy here, but I was also pointing out by referring to the tweets that the hypocrisy isn't just on one side...

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

Ok I see what happened, you reacted to something I didn't say.

What I did say was that if she was white and had written those tweets then she would have been "cancelled" already.

I didn't state anywhere that I agreed with the politicians and others response to her protest - I support the right to protest and think it's a freedom we should all have.

Of course there's hypocrisy here, but I was also pointing out by referring to the tweets that the hypocrisy isn't just on one side...

Would she be cancelled in the US though? I know the England cricketer just received a 8 match (5 suspended) ban for historical tweets. We aren't the US and free speech just isn't protected here like it is in the US.

Personally I think Ollie Robinson should have just said he was young, stupid and his comments were wrong. That he has learnt a lot from when he was young and stupid. Playing with a Muslim team mate for one. That would have been an end of it for me. Those tweets just came across as a young man trying to sound funny and edgy before his peers but coming across as an idiot, as many of us did at his age.

 

[Raz]

Would she be cancelled in the US though? I know the England cricketer just received a 8 match (5 suspended) ban for historical tweets. We aren't the US and free speech just isn't protected here like it is in the US.

Personally I think Ollie Robinson should have just said he was young, stupid and his comments were wrong. That he has learnt a lot from when he was young and stupid. Playing with a Muslim team mate for one. That would have been an end of it for me. Those tweets just came across as a young man trying to sound funny and edgy before his peers but coming across as an idiot, as many of us did at his age.

I agree on the face of it most of these tweets are similar to what my generation were saying but fortunately it was before Twitter...young people say and do stupid things and shouldn't necessarily be punished when they're older and hopefully more sensible.

 

[dowie]

Ok I see what happened, you reacted to something I didn't say.

Quite standard, unfortunately, people are quick to take the lazy/easy option and argue against some straw man instead of addressing what you actually said.

What I did say was that if she was white and had written those tweets then she would have been "cancelled" already.

When it comes to cancel culture it does seem that group identity can provide some (but by no means 100%) immunity, it will be interesting to see what happens here for example:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1411479450890407936

I'd assume that if that were a white person in charge of civil liberty org after say 9/11 and they were saying "burn it all down" in relation to mosques being attacked then I'd presume they'd be removed pretty damn quickly, or realistically would be much less likely to have the audacity to tweet such a thing. As it's about the Catholic church, however (an organisation that of course does deserve plenty of criticism here, but not vandalism of churches) and she's not a white person she seems to feel empowered enough to say something that seems both at odds with her position and just rather abhorrent in general.

 

[GGizmo]

I think the problem in the US is that echo chambers form too easily with debates never moving to a conclusion.

I agree with the recent comments of French President Macron saying that American woke culture is a threat to our way of life.

The American people have very little influence in both electing and holding their representatives to account. I can understand why they are frustrated.

But the rest of the Western world shouldn't be dragged down with it.

 

[Raz]

Quite standard, unfortunately, people are quick to take the lazy/easy option and argue against some straw man instead of addressing what you actually said.



When it comes to cancel culture it does seem that group identity can provide some (but by no means 100%) immunity, it will be interesting to see what happens here for example:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1411479450890407936

I'd assume that if that were a white person in charge of civil liberty org after say 9/11 and they were saying "burn it all down" in relation to mosques being attacked then I'd presume they'd be removed pretty damn quickly, or realistically would be much less likely to have the audacity to tweet such a thing. As it's about the Catholic church, however (an organisation that of course does deserve plenty of criticism here, but not vandalism of churches) and she's not a white person she seems to feel empowered enough to say something that seems both at odds with her position and just rather abhorrent in general.

The long term consequence of this will make things much worse for minority groups because it will seemingly appear that equality wouldn't mean equal treatment for everyone.

 

[explicit4u]

I think the problem in the US is that echo chambers form too easily with debates never moving to a conclusion.

I agree with the recent comments of French President Macron saying that American woke culture is a threat to our way of life.

The American people have very little influence in both electing and holding their representatives to account. I can understand why they are frustrated.

But the rest of the Western world shouldn't be dragged down with it.

Huh, how's it any different over here?

 

[Raz]

I think the problem in the US is that echo chambers form too easily with debates never moving to a conclusion.

I agree with the recent comments of French President Macron saying that American woke culture is a threat to our way of life.

The American people have very little influence in both electing and holding their representatives to account. I can understand why they are frustrated.

But the rest of the Western world shouldn't be dragged down with it.

But... they're at the forefront of democracy and the greatest country in the world!

More seriously though, debates don't move forward because they get shut down - everything is apparently racist, anti-american, woke, right-wing and so on. Once a label gets attached to it the conversation soon dies.

 

[GGizmo]

Huh, how's it any different over here?

Because here you are able to stand in any election you like. It doesn't cost a lot, and all election expenses are written down and logged. There are many election rules to keep it fair for all candidates. The highest expense that people have to pay is a deposit to stand. But you even get that back if you reach a certain percentage of the vote result.

As an individual if you were focused on politics in your area you can build a career of it and be successful, even as an Independent. How many people in the US stand in an election and win as an Independent at national level? None. This is why we have people representing the Republicans and Democrats that aren't either. But the system is that corrupted that they have to join to represent one of the two parties or they will get no where.

In the US it is legal for a private company to buy a politician by funding his campaign to become elected with the promise that when he does, that politician will then vote to change the law, or seek exemptions, for the company that got him elected. That happens all the time in the US. It never makes any headlines, unless you're an outsider trying to be elected.

The US system is built on gangsterism of its history. Most of the top political family's come from criminal enterprises, particularly during the prohibition era, and before.

This is why when there is talk of Amazon and other private American companies being taxed in other countries suddenly the US President chimes in saying if you do that then we're going to put sanctions on you. Both Trump and Biden say this. Some issues aren't party political. The US government is too close to private companies. It's a legal racket.

There was a good AOC video about this a couple of years ago.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

Quite standard, unfortunately, people are quick to take the lazy/easy option and argue against some straw man instead of addressing what you actually said.

My post was talking about her being cancelled for her turning her back on a piece of cloth. Raz came back with her tweets but its me creating a strawman. Ok.

When it comes to cancel culture it does seem that group identity can provide some (but by no means 100%) immunity, it will be interesting to see what happens here for example:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1411479450890407936

I'd assume that if that were a white person in charge of civil liberty org after say 9/11 and they were saying "burn it all down" in relation to mosques being attacked then I'd presume they'd be removed pretty damn quickly, or realistically would be much less likely to have the audacity to tweet such a thing. As it's about the Catholic church, however (an organisation that of course does deserve plenty of criticism here, but not vandalism of churches) and she's not a white person she seems to feel empowered enough to say something that seems both at odds with her position and just rather abhorrent in general.

Does she mean literally burn down churches or burn down the institutions metaphorically? There is a huge difference and I can't find anything from that tweet.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

I think the problem in the US is that echo chambers form too easily with debates never moving to a conclusion.

I agree with the recent comments of French President Macron saying that American woke culture is a threat to our way of life.

The American people have very little influence in both electing and holding their representatives to account. I can understand why they are frustrated.

But the rest of the Western world shouldn't be dragged down with it.

Arguably the US offers far more democracy to its citizens than we have. They get to elect everything from the dog catcher, schoolboard, to judiciary at State level. The fact that they allow jerrymandering, voter suppression and a Senate that is unrepresentative to the national population does change the equation a lot.

 

[explicit4u]

Because here you are able to stand in any election you like. It doesn't cost a lot, and all election expenses are written down and logged. There are many election rules to keep it fair for all candidates. The highest expense that people have to pay is a deposit to stand. But you even get that back if you reach a certain percentage of the vote result.

As an individual if you were focused on politics in your area you can build a career of it and be successful, even as an Independent. How many people in the US stand in an election and win as an Independent at national level? None. This is why we have people representing the Republicans and Democrats that aren't either. But the system is that corrupted that they have to join to represent one of the two parties or they will get no where.

In the US it is legal for a private company to buy a politician by funding his campaign to become elected with the promise that when he does, that politician will then vote to change the law, or seek exemptions, for the company that got him elected. That happens all the time in the US. It never makes any headlines, unless you're an outsider trying to be elected.

The US system is built on gangsterism of its history. Most of the top political family's come from criminal enterprises, particularly during the prohibition era, and before.

This is why when there is talk of Amazon and other private American companies being taxed in other countries suddenly the US President chimes in saying if you do that then we're going to put sanctions on you. Both Trump and Biden say this. Some issues aren't party political. The US government is too close to private companies. It's a legal racket.

There was a good AOC video about this a couple of years ago.

Can't you argue the same things about the UK?

How many independent MPs are there? When was the last time we didn't have a tory or labour government? How many MPs aren't fully aligned with their parties politics? How many times have we seen industries/companies/individuals donate to parties in return for favours? FPTP?

I wouldn't say corporations are as ingrained in our political system as the US, but I don't think we're far off and I do not believe we're heading in the right direction in regards to this.