Caster Semenya could be forced to undertake hormone therapy for future Olympics

Semple said:
I feel sorry for all the female athletes who train for their lives to compete at these types of events, and knowing they don't stand a chance of even competing when they're up against a man who wants to identify as a woman.

It just makes the whole thing a farce!

He/she is free to identify as whatever gender they wish to identify as, but when it comes to competing in sports, he/she needs to compete against equals.

As somone else said earlier on, he's probably a rubbish athlete who would never even be able to compete in men's events, so now by identifying as a woman, he can now win golds.
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Semenya's not a man. Nor a trans woman. She's intersex.
 
Has there been any released evidence saying semenya is physically a male? She's had the tests and apparently still allowed to compete in some races? It says she's intersex, which I assume means she has female organs but also some male genetic programming including hugely increased testosterone.

What's the actual scientific evidence of her results? Or are people just guessing?

It's an unusual situation for sure, must be difficult for her if she's defo intersex because naturally she doesn't fit mens or women's, she's both.
 
Combat squirrel said:
Has there been any released evidence saying semenya is physically a male? She's had the tests and apparently still allowed to compete in some races? It says she's intersex, which I assume means she has female organs but also some male genetic programming including hugely increased testosterone.

What's the actual scientific evidence of her results? Or are people just guessing?

It's an unusual situation for sure, must be difficult for her if she's defo intersex because naturally she doesn't fit mens or women's, she's both.
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People are guessing, they gender tested her in 2010 and never released the results.
 
Interesting situation this trans athletes. If you think about it, genetics play a huge role in winning gold medals. Sure, all athletes need to work hard but I feel that genetics play the crucial role. So some men are born better suited for running on a genetic level, no matter how much work another person will put in, he will never be able to beat the other person. Now Semenya has the same advantage, a unique intersex genetic make up that gives her higher levels of testosterone, which in turn makes her better than female-born athletes. So in a way this is not different than Michael Phelps who is genetically just perfect for swimming, other athletes do not seem to have a chance against him when he was in his prime.

Of course I see the point that putting women with somebody who has male levels of testosterone makes the whole competition pointless as obviously the higher testosterone gives absolute advantage but then again, it was her genetic make up since birth. Should we punish Michael Phelps for his freak genetic make up that make him perfect for swimming?

Complicated situation. Personally I think it is unfair for trans M to F compete with women, it just seems not fair but here we have Semenya who is not altering her body, she was born this way. I have conflicting view on the whole thing as I personally think her winning is unfair but at the same time why is it unfair, she was born this way and she is a female.

So does that mean we need to reclassify sports from male/female to pre X number of testosterone / post X number of testosterone?
 
TheOracle said:
Why should she be discriminated against because of her biological makeup?

I thought we were now living in this weird world where everything has to be equal?
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Because she's trying to compete in a no-male category with some male physical attributes.

It's not her fault, and I find some of the rhetoric toward her to be a bit harsh, but I don't think she should be able to compete against women at the elite level.
 
Everyone gets a gold medal. Problem solved.

Only other real option is for athletes in the same events as her refuse to compete with her. She would soon give up, what would be the point?!
 
Bottom line is what is the women's competition for?

It's fundamentally a handicap event to allow a class of person to be able to compete where otherwise they would have no chance in an open competition.

Does Semenya's condition meet the criteria for the agreed ?

Is the only criterion chromosomal?

edit: handicap appears to have a specific meaning in sport which doesn't align with what i'm trying to say. i'm hoping this was clear otherwise, bear with my while i try to think of alternative wording. For diplomacy's sake i'm trying to avoid saying women are disabled.
 
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Stringy said:
Testosterone doping is banned; if someone has significantly higher levels of testosterone than the rest of their gender then the rest of the field should be allowed to dope-up to match it. Granted, it isn't nice for her that she was born with an unfair advantage over the rest of the field, but I feel even more bad for the unfair treatment of the other runners who are forced to compete against her.
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^^This
 
cheesyboy said:
Semenya's not a man. Nor a trans woman. She's intersex.
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Intersex is not a third gender or anything like it. There are a variety of intersex conditions but Caster seems to have a development disorder that prevented his sexual organs from properly developing. He's not really any less male than a normal man would be who lost his penis in an accident. In the latter case, would you suddenly refer to that individual as a third sex or 'neither man nor woman'? No. Caster is intersex. But is still a biological man. The two are not incompatible.
 
sinwave said:
Bottom line is what is the women's competition for?

It's fundamentally a handicap event to allow a class of person to be able to compete where otherwise they would have no chance in an open competition.

Does Semenya's condition meet the criteria for the agreed ?

Is the only criterion chromosomal?

edit: handicap appears to have a specific meaning in sport which doesn't align with what i'm trying to say. i'm hoping this was clear otherwise, bear with my while i try to think of alternative wording. For diplomacy's sake i'm trying to avoid saying women are disabled.
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It's a restricted event.
 
h4rm0ny said:
Intersex is not a third gender or anything like it. There are a variety of intersex conditions but Caster seems to have a development disorder that prevented his sexual organs from properly developing. He's not really any less male than a normal man would be who lost his penis in an accident. In the latter case, would you suddenly refer to that individual as a third sex or 'neither man nor woman'? No. Caster is intersex. But is still a biological man. The two are not incompatible.
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I think referring to her as "he" illustrates quite well the lack of good faith in where you're coming from here.
 
cheesyboy said:
It's a restricted event
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cheers

Semple said:
As somone else said earlier on, he's probably a rubbish athlete who would never even be able to compete in men's events, so now by identifying as a woman, he can now win golds.
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by all accounts semenya has always lived as a woman. In that sense it's not like Fallon fox in MMA who IIRC competed as a male before entering the women's sport.
 
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