Caster Semenya could be forced to undertake hormone therapy for future Olympics

Sport isnt fair. And add time goes on it will only get more unfair.
Where do you draw the line when even gender isn't really binary?

If you have X amount of testosterone you must compete in the men section?

Or do we abandon gender and have an equivalent 'weight' classification system for hormone levels?

I'd love to see the uber level competition! :D


Trans will always be an issue when we have men:women category.
 
413x said:
Sport isnt fair. And add time goes on it will only get more unfair.
Where do you draw the line when even gender isn't really binary?

If you have X amount of testosterone you must compete in the men section?

Or do we abandon gender and have an equivalent 'weight' classification system for hormone levels?

I'd love to see the uber level competition! :D


Trans will always be an issue when we have men:women category.
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How about I just say "life isn't fair" in response?

If you are "a woman in a man's body" life dealt you a **** hand, and you can't be a professional female sports person. Life isn't fair :p

Also for most people, sex is binary enough. Couldn't care less about your "gender", really. Be a fluffy trans dragon wolf attack helicopter if you must.
 
Destination said:
It a quote from quite some time ago, but are you saying you can look at castor and state that she is a man? Or are you speaking in general?
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If people didn't know him, he wasn't wearing female clothing and you didn't prime someone to suspect a trick question with "Is this a man or a woman...?", pretty much everyone would take him for what he is - a man. He's intersex so if he were naked he'd look like a guy without a penis but yes. You can look at Caster and say "man". I am also talking in general. There are very, very rare people who can pass - usually with a lot of accompanying social cues like make-up and dress. Online it is easier where you can have photoshop or careful angles. But in real life very seldom. It's vanishingly rare to be able to pass in real life without surgery and even then, hard.​
 
FoxEye said:
How about I just say "life isn't fair" in response?

If you are "a woman in a man's body" life dealt you a **** hand, and you can't be a professional female sports person. Life isn't fair
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Gets my vote. The vast, vast majority of women cannot compete at the top international level of sports. Should women with short legs or dodgy knees be given a bike to ride for the 400m? To make it fair?

Few women can make it at the international level. If you allow men to compete, almost none will.
 
TFW when you're reading opinions from people who can't even step outside their basement let alone compete at a national or international sporting level and they think their views have any meaningful weight outside a computer forum :)

Is it too difficult to have any introspection? I don't mean a lot, even a little or a tiny amount would do.
 
[FnG]magnolia said:
TFW when you're reading opinions from people who can't even step outside their basement let alone compete at a national or international sporting level and they think their views have any meaningful weight outside a computer forum :)

Is it too difficult to have any introspection? I don't mean a lot, even a little or a tiny amount would do.
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Oh FFS get off your high horse and engage properly or don't bother. Throwing around weak and cliched stereotypes that's decades old makes you look like an imbecile
 
aardvark said:
at what point do you say that person is more man than woman?
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When she has a bigger willy than me.:eek:


Honestly its a tough subject, whats going on inside one persons mind is not for others to question but there does have to be fairness in sport too, glad I am not in the position that has to judge the situation.
 
aardvark said:
at what point do you say that person is more man than woman?
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At the point where he looks like a man, sounds like a man, performs like a man, has the mannerisms of a man, has no womb or ovaries like a man, has working testes like a man, dresses like a man, and marries a woman.

In my earlier post I put Caster at 60 on a scale of 1-100 (leaning masculine). After watching that interview I've revised that to 70.
 
Skunkworks said:
At the point where he looks like a man, sounds like a man, performs like a man, has the mannerisms of a man, has no womb or ovaries like a man, has working testes like a man, dresses like a man, and marries a woman.

In my earlier post I put Caster at 60 on a scale of 1-100 (leaning masculine). After watching that interview I've revised that to 70.
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the problem i guess is that she doesn't really fit into any category, so shouldn't be allowed to compete with other women because she has an unfair advantage - anyone intersex is going to have a massive advantage over a woman with a lifetime of low testosterone.
 
[FnG]magnolia said:
TFW when you're reading opinions from people who can't even step outside their basement let alone compete at a national or international sporting level and they think their views have any meaningful weight outside a computer forum :)

Is it too difficult to have any introspection? I don't mean a lot, even a little or a tiny amount would do.
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What's the need to look down on people by condescendingly suggesting that views mean nothing because they aren't coming from elite athletes? Are people not supposed to have views on if someone's offside, or an opinion on who will win a boxing match because they aren't trained experts? Are handicapped people not allowed to discuss walking?

And who is claiming they do have any weight outside of a computer forum? That's why they are being discussed on a computer forum.
 
I really feel for Semenya - as an athlete she just wants to compete.

She has hyperandrogenism which causes her body to naturally produce excessive male hormones. It comes with a whole heap of other issues, risk of cancers, polycystic ovaries are common. It's not a nice condition. Why she chooses not to take the usual treatment of antiandrogens I don't know - maybe she wants to run fast?

But the bottom line seems to be that she is a woman with a natural advantage over other women.

Ian Thorpe the swimmer has size SEVENTEEN feet - the guy has flippers. Should he have been allowed to compete or did he have a natural unfair advantage?

The whole 'fair'/'unfair' thing in sport is impossible. It is going to get so funny if/when a high profile sport like tennis gets a transgender athlete competing as a woman. 6'3" hitting serves at 130mph with 5 set stamina and the movement/groundstrokes to back it up.
 
Trying to conflate this with someone having big feet is a bit ridiculous. In running (and in swimming) the only segregation is by sex.
 
Hodders said:
I really feel for Semenya - as an athlete she just wants to compete.

She has hyperandrogenism which causes her body to naturally produce excessive male hormones. It comes with a whole heap of other issues, risk of cancers, polycystic ovaries are common. It's not a nice condition. Why she chooses not to take the usual treatment of antiandrogens I don't know - maybe she wants to run fast?

But the bottom line seems to be that she is a woman with a natural advantage over other women.
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No, that doesn't "seem to be" the bottom line. He's intersex and more male than female. This is clear.
 
dowie said:
Trying to conflate this with someone having big feet is a bit ridiculous. In running (and in swimming) the only segregation is by sex.
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I'm just trying to say that both are entirely natural conditions. If I tried to wear fins to compete in a swimming comp I would be thrown out. Thorpe had a huge natural advantage, as does Semenya.
 
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