Soldato
Perhaps this Italian boxer just isn’t very good considering she’s lost more than 10 times in the last 4 years
Caster Semenya could be forced to undertake hormone therapy for future Olympics
- Thread starter dowie
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Perhaps this Italian boxer just isn’t very good considering she’s lost more than 10 times in the last 4 years
But then the dudes will have a biological advantage against her?
Perhaps this Italian boxer just isn’t very good considering she’s lost more than 10 times in the last 4 years
She’s awful, and now a cry baby loser.
This is part of the problem, the reporting on this stuff tends to be sensitive so they'll be subtle and refer to her as a woman with high testosterone or something and that leads people to think that rules are very unfair, comparisons with people being tall in basketball etc..
But she's only a woman in the polite gender identity sense, in reality, it seems she's a biological male whose bits didn't develop properly. That someone wants to identify as a woman and was raised as one out of convenience because of a medical condition isn't a good reason to let them compete as one when they're biologically a male.
They're not born as a woman though - they're referred to as a woman because that's the gender identity they choose to use, they're a biological male.
Soldato
From what i understand, and happily to be told otherwise, she was born with female genitalia but has XY chromosomes and higher than average levels of testosterone for a woman - seems very much grey rather black and white.
There's definitely potential there for an advantage although does she have the same levels of testosterone as an average male?
If not, then you could argue that males would have an advantage over her which also doesn't seem exactly fair.
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Is that fair? In my mind it isn't. In my mind sport is about making the best of what your body can do. If someone is born with an innate ability to never have lactic acid build up or have some weird disorder where they can maintain a threshold/v02 max level for significantly longer than their competitors, do we tell them they than can't compete?
So their option is to be great in their sport or join the mens ranks and just be a journey-man.
Imagine saying to a WNBA player that "sorry, your genetics have made you too tall. Your choice is either play in the NBA or not play at all, sorry". That would be wild to me.
Why would they? She is biologically more similar to a male from what I've read.
Yeah she has found herself in a weird segment if she's not quite male but way too much for female.
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There’s only one source claiming Imane Khelif has XY chromosomes and it’s a decertified org known for corruption, headed by a Russian and the results came 3 days after she beat a Russian athlete.
At the time they disqualified her right before the gold medal match was basically "We did a totally legit DNA test to find this out, we won't tell you what the test is for reasons, but totally legit and real!"
Now I’m not saying she doesn’t have some gender advantages, but she doesn’t have a dick and balls as far as I know.
At the time they disqualified her right before the gold medal match was basically "We did a totally legit DNA test to find this out, we won't tell you what the test is for reasons, but totally legit and real!"
Now I’m not saying she doesn’t have some gender advantages, but she doesn’t have a dick and balls as far as I know.
Just as they'd have against many other males who aren't Olympic-level boxers.
So what? She's a male, she has male advantages, why should people (males with DSD conditions) who'd otherwise just be gifted amateurs/local club-level athletes get to compete in the Olympics by virtue of identifying as women?
Whether they're trans and identifying as women out of some underlying desire or mental condition or whether they're intersex and identifying as women because that was convenient as a result of their malformed private they're still biological males and should be competing with other males for obvious reasons.
Soldato
If that is factually true then I would agree but people seem to be saying otherwise.
Does she have underdeveloped male bits or actual female bits.
Edit: I just read that back to myself, and seems bit gross / weird questioning the state of someone else’s genitalia
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She probably does have balls, that's the underlying issue here - she's male and the balls are part of the advantage.
Babies start out looking female in the womb - both males and females will have a hole, the female ones develop ovaries, uterus etc.. the male ones develop testes and grow a ball sack over the hole. The clit on the females becomes a penis on the males.
Buy some male (XY) babies have a few errors on their chromosomes and don't properly develop a penis and/or grow a ball sack to cover the hole - they might have what looks like a large clit or micropeen and still have an opening that looks a bit like a female vagina. Their balls won't drop as they should do in male children but can stay inside them... they'll still go through male puberty and get male athletic advantages.
They're not female, they don't have a womb or eggs, they just have a hole because their male bits didn't fully develop or partially develop. So socially it's often been the case that they're raised as if they're female, they identify as girls/women even though they're not biologically so.
The fact that they don't have a properly developed penis isn't relevant to athletics though - the fact that they've still got a pair of balls and are still sensitive to testosterone and are males and have male advantages is the relevant factor here... the very reason we have separate male and female events in most sports!
Soldato
Just off her record itself, doesn’t appear she has any advantage given she is pillow fisted as **** and can barely crack an egg. The way the Italian quit was a bit pathetic and dramatic if I’m being completely honest, pretending like she got hit by Tyson when in reality her opponent can’t punch for ****. Personally I think it was political.
She's failed sex testing by the IBA and didn't appeal to the CAS for obvious reasons.
The IOC on the other hand has released some statement about their criteria being the sex on people's passports.
And various people have been either putting forth or attacking some other irrelevant trans argument or pointing out that Algeira isn't friendly to trans or gays... problem is Algeira will still have DSD people and obvs if she's been identified as female since birth then there is no "transition" thus not "trans", she's been (legally) "Female" all her life while being (biologically) "Male".
Most of the confusion over this is because of concerns/sensitivities about the individual athletes but in reality they know full well what they are and have chosen to put themselves in this positon regardless (she's disqualified from the World Championships because she's male) so perhaps the reporting needs to be clearer and a bit more condemnatino thrown their way instead of pussyfooting around the subject.
It was the same with Semenya where loads of people were confused - "but she's a strong African Woman, she's not trans, Michael Phelps has long limbs" etc.. all missing the point that she's male.
Soldato
Personally i think she's more akin to a PED'd athlete but as it's natural then it's definitely places her in no-mans land. Complete **** situation for her though.
Female 'bits' from what i've read and i haven't seen anything that mentions undeveloped male genitals.
Has it been reported that she does?
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Soldato
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Laurel Hubbard didn't win the weightlifting gold but the middle aged man denied a genuine female lifter the chance to compete at the Olympics. (Trans but the principle is similar).
Caster Semenya, Francine Niyonsaba and Margret Wambui won Gold, Silver and Bronze respectively in the 2016 Women's 800m all were XY DSD.
Sometimes the advantage is decisive sometimes it's not, just because Khelif isn't a very good boxer (only an Olympian) doesn't mean that women's sport shouldn't be protected.
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This is the bit that blurs the lines for everybody, the IBA being an organisation accused of corruption, led by a Russian, that the IOC have binned off and various national boxing federations have left behind to join 'World Boxing' instead - who have carried out a test that they won't give any details of due to 'confidentiality', days after Imane defeated a Russian competitor at the World Championships. It doesn't feel like the most reliable of sources really.
And that's the problem with the reporting on this - it leads to confusion. She's male, she doesn't really have female bits, he junk might look a bit similar to that of a female because of her genetic abnormality but that's got little relevance here - the relevant part is the male advantage/male bits (testes).
If there was corruption or a flawed test w.r.t her specific instance then she could just take another test and appeal via the CAS, she's chosen to drop any appeal for obvious reasons.
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Man of Honour
You been and had a look? You're assuming/guessing/going off whatever is being reported somewhere the same as everyone else.
She's failed a sex test and is banned from the world championships because she's male, it's not just guessing that she looks like a bloke, she's an XY male with a DSD condition.
She's competing in the Olympics because the IOC seemingly isn't considering sex verification testing on boxers.
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