Caster Semenya could be forced to undertake hormone therapy for future Olympics

[Pigeon_Killer]

Just watched her latest fight and I’m struggling to see any of the physical advantages many claim she has over the rest of the competition.

Certainly isn’t power or speed so unless her condition meant she grew Inspector Gadget arms the only differences are the scientific ones.

 

[StriderX]

The other woman literally fell over on purpose, it's clear as day but nah dude it must be because the other person was actually a man.

 

[Pigeon_Killer]

The other woman literally fell over on purpose, it's clear as day but nah dude it must be because the other person was actually a man.

Ritchie Woodall even commented she wasn’t a knockout artist with only 6 KOs in 40 odd fights yet social media has her as someone that’s ripping heads off like Deontay Wilder

 

[StriderX]

I guess Broadhurst from Ireland is also a man as no way a woman could beat Khelif even though she did 2 years ago.

 

[dowie]

https://thesportjournal.org/article...ing-drug-testing-within-the-olympic-movement/

says every medal winner will get tested

What are you referring to there? You seemed to be talking about doping or something? Could you maybe quote the bit you're thinking of?

 

[dowie]

Legal Sex is a nonsense term - a technical kludge to pander to the trans activist lobby to allow their documents to reflect their own denial of reality.

In sports biology should be the ultimate arbiter of qualification to participate in classes. Weight is used to determine classes in contact sports for example. Being fast enough determines if you can qualify for Olympic running teams. Being female should be the screen for participation in the female sports class.

It might well be but the fact is that it exists and the IOC is using it - it exists in the UK too, we can refer to it. Ditto to the modern concept of gender - some people might think that's a nonsense term too when used in that context and have the opinion that, say trans women are men etc..

The point isn't what should or shouldn't be but simply what is.

Gender identity (as something separate from biology) exists, legal sex exists and biological sex exists - these are things that get conflated in this sort of discussion.

 

[dowie]

I guess Broadhurst from Ireland is also a man as no way a woman could beat Khelif even though she did 2 years ago.

You seem to have completely confused yourself here, I'd wager most Olympic female boxers could beat the absolute **** out of you - does that mean you're not a man?

 

[One More Solo]

Just watched her latest fight and I’m struggling to see any of the physical advantages many claim she has over the rest of the competition.

Certainly isn’t power or speed so unless her condition meant she grew Inspector Gadget arms the only differences are the scientific ones.

This is what I don’t get, other than this alleged test there is no evidence in her performance or results that she has any sort of genetic advantage. Unless her genetic gifts are making up for the fact she’s not actually a boxer.

 

[sidimmu]

I guess Broadhurst from Ireland is also a man as no way a woman could beat Khelif even though she did 2 years ago.

The reach with this, calm down its quite embarrassing.
Just because they are a male thats gone in to a female category does not always mean they will win.
But it is wrong on so many other factors and reasons and has significant risks attached.

Lets be really honest here for a second, you have to be quite a weak individual to not compete in your own playing field. This is why you dont see the top ranks switch sexes, because they have that mentality of wanting to be the best, not take an easier route.
It is hilarious when they get beat though, Ashlee Evans-Smith Vs Fallon Fox being a classic example here.

 

[StriderX]

Ah yes the reach to call a woman a woman based entirely on Russian propaganda, how very embarrassing.

Oh no how will I live with myself being right...

 

[dowie]

This is what I don’t get, other than this alleged test there is no evidence in her performance or results that she has any sort of genetic advantage. Unless her genetic gifts are making up for the fact she’s not actually a boxer.

Other than two tests in CAS-approved laboratories showing she's a biological male?

Do you really not get that males have a huge advantage in most sports vs females?

It's not making up for the fact that she's not a boxer, her male advantage it's more making up for the fact that as a male she'd only be a local club-level amateur but because of the dumb IOC regs she's currently an Olympian by competing as a female.

 

[dowie]

Ah yes the reach to call a woman a woman based entirely on Russian propaganda, how very embarrassing.

Oh no how will I live with myself being right...

But the issue isn't about what she's called, it's about her being a biological male - her social gender as a woman is totally irrelevant. You're still completely confused about this issue.

 

[dowie]

Just watched her latest fight and I’m struggling to see any of the physical advantages many claim she has over the rest of the competition.

Certainly isn’t power or speed so unless her condition meant she grew Inspector Gadget arms the only differences are the scientific ones.

I think this is just a lack of understanding on your part - you could pair some Olympic-level females with a mediocre amateur male from some local club and you'd maybe see the same thing, there are no doubt thousands of male amateurs able to compete at a similar level.

The bit you've completely missed is that those mediocre local club-level amateurs shouldn't be anywhere near the Olympics and would only be in there if competing incorrectly in the female category. Whereas the females who are able to compete at that level are rather rarer and among the best female boxers in the world.

 

[Pigeon_Killer]

But the issue isn't about what she's called, it's about her being a biological male - her social gender as a woman is totally irrelevant. You're still completely confused about this issue.

And I think there might be a lack of understanding on your part, the IOC make the rules, not you.

Also, my post was about the pack of lies being posted on social media to whip up the brain dead right not about whether I think it’s fair or right.

 

[StriderX]

But the issue isn't about what she's called, it's about her being a biological male - her social gender as a woman is totally irrelevant. You're still completely confused about this issue.

Algeria would have her in prison if she was trans.

 

[One More Solo]

Other than two tests in CAS-approved laboratories showing she's a biological male?

Do you really not get that males have a huge advantage in most sports vs females?

It's not making up for the fact that she's not a boxer, her male advantage it's more making up for the fact that as a male she'd only be a local club-level amateur but because of the dumb IOC regs she's currently an Olympian by competing as a female.

Yes, I’m not a moron. I’m just sceptical of the quality/validity of the testing and would be hesitant to draw conclusions until the tests are reperformed by a governing body that has not been discredited. I would be more willing to accept the tests at face value if they stacked up with what we are seeing.

CAS don’t approve laboratories and WADA approved laboratories (which I assume is what you mean but perhaps undermines your credibility) have not exactly been foolproof in the past.

 

[GGizmo]

It’s an interesting suggestion, however ordinary female testosterone levels and ordinary male testosterone levels are vastly different once the age of ten - with no crossover.

A healthy female 18 year olds test will be in the range 15-38 ng/dL.

A healthy male 18 year olds test will be in the range 100-970 ng/dL.

If a ‘woman’ has test in the male range, then they are 99.9% likely to either be cheating or actually male.

The IoC told Caster Semenya that he would have to reduce his test down to levels that would drastically reduce his competitiveness but would still have been greater than that of an ordinary female.

I'll take your figures as accurate, what happens if a woman is 90ng/dL ?

 

[sidimmu]

Ah yes the reach to call a woman a woman based entirely on Russian propaganda, how very embarrassing.

Oh no how will I live with myself being right...

Why not actually reply?
Still clearly confused when presented with reality, nice...

 

[Moley]

Algeria would have her in prison if she was trans.

Which would be a solid reason to not identify as trans. In Iran (as a counter example) the opposite is true - trans is considered preferable to homosexuality, which is very illegal, and so many gay men “transition” to escape legal consequences.

To be clear, I don’t know if this person is male or female. I don’t know if they have a DSD - and which one they have, if they do.

What I do know is this incident has all the hallmarks of the issues with Caster Semenya - the denial and obfuscation of the facts over gender/sex, the lack of transparency over testing, the insistence on the athlete being a woman (adult human female), etc and now we know that Caster is a male.

The IoC has form for this, they knew about it did nothing about the East German doping in the late 70s and 80s and they’ve had several corruption cases over the years related to the awarding of the games to candidate countries.

 

[Moley]

I'll take your figures as accurate, what happens if a woman is 90ng/dL ?

What happens in what context?