Caster Semenya could be forced to undertake hormone therapy for future Olympics

StriderX said:
So a person born a woman must be chemically forced into line but men who very likely dope with the help of their coaches to evade detection are completely and utterly alright?

That's just ******* evil.
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No, you’re missing the point.

Caster wasn’t born a girl - he was born a boy, he has functional, internal testes and has stated as much both in interviews with the BBC and in evidence given in various legal cases.

He was born deformed - incorrect external genitalia - and misidentified as a girl at birth, raised as such and then when puberty kicked in, his true nature started to become ascendant.

Caster can compete as a male with no intervention or as a female with intervention - which imho is wrong and just ‘reverse roping’ and is cheating.

That he continues to try and compete as a female even after giving evidence that proves he knows he is male, demonstrates clearly that he is a cheat and should be stripped of all titles won in the female category.
 
StriderX said:
So a person born a woman must be chemically forced into line but men who very likely dope with the help of their coaches to evade detection are completely and utterly alright? That's just ******* evil.
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What do you mean by "born a woman"?

We're talking about biological males here.

Their (social) gender identity/chosen pronouns have no relevance to sports.
 
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Hungarian girl gone 2 rounds with Imane. Behind on scorecard though. Probably needs a stoppage.

Both look similar size muscle wise, if anything Imane has smaller delts is it?

If it is a man then got zero power. That Italian girl in previous round melted after the media frenzy.

Fight goes 3 rounds. U dec to Imane
 
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Moley said:
Only if you’re ideologically captured by the gender mob who believe a male can be a woman.

In which case you’re not credible and can be ignored.
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Don't conflate sex and gender FFS, that's why we have this madness, with the language the battleground.

Males can be women, males cannot be female.

Going off the topic anyway. This thread is nothing to do with trans and everything to do with sex advantages in sport.
 
scarps said:
Hungarian girl gone 2 rounds with Imane. Behind on scorecard though. Probably needs a stoppage.

Both look similar size muscle wise, if anything Imane has smaller delts is it?
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It's not really relevant, there are plenty of biological males out there with smaller delts etc.. than female Olympic boxers and female Olympic boxers can probably beat most men.

The issue here is the male advantage that biological males have - that lets some male person compete as an Olympic level female when in reality they'd only be an amateur/local club level male at best... simply because their penis didn't properly develop as a baby.
 
StriderX said:
So a person born a woman must be chemically forced into line but men who very likely dope with the help of their coaches to evade detection are completely and utterly alright? That's just ******* evil.
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What you smoking mate?
Its not utterly alright, they get banned from competing as a result. If levels return to the accepted and appropriate averages, you can compete again.
 
dowie said:
It's not really relevant, there are plenty of biological males out there with smaller delts etc.. than female Olympic boxers and female Olympic boxers can probably beat most men.

The issue here is the male advantage that biological males have - that lets some male person compete as an Olympic level female when in reality they'd only be an amateur/local club level male at best... simply because their penis didn't properly develop as a baby.
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What tests, doping etc will the Olympics use as now she is in medal fight shes getting tested. If she's male then surely she will be DQ'd
 
Fubsy said:
Don't conflate sex and gender FFS, that's why we have this madness, with the language the battleground.

Males can be women, males cannot be female.

Going off the topic anyway. This thread is nothing to do with trans and everything to do with sex advantages in sport.
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That's an ideological issue and neither is inherently correct - it's perfectly legitimate to call her a man or a woman depending on one's ideological perspective and acceptance or rejection of modern gender ideology.

Also (biological) males can be (legally) female*, there are various factors at play here, that's why it's helpful to clarify with "biological male" or "not a biological woman" etc.

The cis/trans thing doesn't necessarily work here either as this person is both a biological male and a cis woman in so far as, according to gender ideology, she's not trans because she's "assigned female at birth".

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*There are at least three different factors here:

social gender: whether someone is identified socially as a man, woman, enby etc..

legal sex: whether someone is legally recognised as "male" or "female" on their birth certificate, passport etc..

biological sex: what they actually are biologically in terms of reproductive organs etc.

In this case, this person's social gender is (maybe) woman (though like Semenya she seems to be acting/dressing like a bloke at times despite the chosen pronouns), their legal sex is female (it needs to be on their passport under IOC rules) and their biological sex is male.
 
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scarps said:
What tests, doping etc will the Olympics use as now she is in medal fight shes getting tested. If she's male then surely she will be DQ'd
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Have they announced they're testing her?

The previous announcement was that their regulations are based on the sex listed on a person's passport.
 
sidimmu said:
What you smoking mate?
Its not utterly alright, they get banned from competing as a result. If levels return to the accepted and appropriate averages, you can compete again.
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Nah, they just shouldn't be competing in the female events if they're male IMO. Save for some of the conditions that don't involve being impacted by male puberty.
 
scarps said:
Thought they did once it reached medal stage? might be wrong but sure Ive heard/read it somewhere.
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They didn't mention anything about that at the press conference, drop in a link though if you can find what you read.

I'm sure there's a bit more pressure on them re: this issue too:

news.sky.com

Imane Khelif: Olympics should reintroduce sex testing in wake of Imane Khelif boxing row, UN adviser says

"We know that there are simple, efficient, dignified ways of testing sex," says Reem Alsalem, the UN's special rapporteur on violence against women and girls.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
Olympic chiefs should reintroduce sex testing for female athletes to protect them from injuries amid concerns about eligibility, a United Nations adviser told Sky News.

The intervention from Reem Alsalem, the UN's special rapporteur on violence against women and girls, comes as the Paris Games is embroiled in a debate about dangers from testosterone advantage in women's events.

Ms Alsalem has expressed concern that Italian boxer Angela Carini was exposed to violence based on her sex during a women's bout against Imane Khelif, who it has been claimed failed a gender eligibility test.
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dowie said:
Nah, they just shouldn't be competing in the female events if they're male IMO. Save for some of the conditions that don't involve being impacted by male puberty.
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Apologies for my lack of clarity.
I meant more in terms of male testosterone cheats in their respected sports.

Alistair Overeem being a classic example here, drug tested and had the testosterone of 7 men running through his veins, once he was allowed to compete again, he looked and performed completely different.

Point being is that testosterone is very powerful and should not be overlooked, but I know you're chill with that!
 
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dowie said:
They didn't mention anything about that at the press conference, drop in a link though if you can find what you read.

I'm sure there's a bit more pressure on them re: this issue too:

news.sky.com

Imane Khelif: Olympics should reintroduce sex testing in wake of Imane Khelif boxing row, UN adviser says

"We know that there are simple, efficient, dignified ways of testing sex," says Reem Alsalem, the UN's special rapporteur on violence against women and girls.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
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edit link below about testing, Can't remember where it was but boxers have been tested already as Cynthia Ogunsemilore got thrown out and banned..... Edit, she was banned for taking furosemide. The 11 years was for a Nigerian sprinter from Tokyo

Thats on the BBC sport site

Not sure why I'm stuck in bold writing:cry:

https://thesportjournal.org/article...ing-drug-testing-within-the-olympic-movement/

says every medal winner will get tested
 
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dowie said:
That's an ideological issue and neither is inherently correct - it's perfectly legitimate to call her a man or a woman depending on one's ideological perspective and acceptance or rejection of modern gender ideology.

Also (biological) males can be (legally) female*, there are various factors at play here, that's why it's helpful to clarify with "biological male" or "not a biological woman" etc.

The cis/trans thing doesn't necessarily work here either as this person is both a biological male and a cis woman in so far as, according to gender ideology, she's not trans because she's "assigned female at birth".

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*There are at least three different factors here:

social gender: whether someone is identified socially as a man, woman, enby etc..

legal sex: whether someone is legally recognised as "male" or "female" on their birth certificate, passport etc..

biological sex: what they actually are biologically in terms of reproductive organs etc.

In this case, this person's social gender is (maybe) woman (though like Semenya she seems to be acting/dressing like a bloke at times despite the chosen pronouns), their legal sex is female (it needs to be on their passport under IOC rules) and their biological sex is male.
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Legal Sex is a nonsense term - a technical kludge to pander to the trans activist lobby to allow their documents to reflect their own denial of reality.

In sports biology should be the ultimate arbiter of qualification to participate in classes. Weight is used to determine classes in contact sports for example. Being fast enough determines if you can qualify for Olympic running teams. Being female should be the screen for participation in the female sports class.
 
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