Caster Semenya could be forced to undertake hormone therapy for future Olympics

[dowie]

And I think there might be a lack of understanding on your part, the IOC make the rules, not you.

I'm not under any misunderstanding there thanks, just because a rule is in place doesn't make it right or immune from criticism.

You don't seem to understand the issue though given the comparison you're making and for the reasons outlined - the issue isn't that every single male should absolutely beat every single female including Olympians ergo your observations of the match and subjective opinion re: advantages or lack of is totally irrelevant.

The pack of lies seems to be having more of an impact on the brain-dead left who seem to think she's a biological woman.

I’m just sceptical of the quality/validity of the testing and would be hesitant to draw conclusions until the tests are reperformed by a governing body

CAS don’t approve laboratories and WADA approved laboratories (which I assume is what you mean but perhaps undermines your credibility) have not exactly been foolproof in the past.

The tests are performed by laboratories not governing bodies, which I assume is what you mean but if so you don't have an argument... as the issue relating to the IBA isn't relevant to that!

WDA accredits laboratories if you want to be super pedantic btw. point is these are labs acceptable to CAS and both athletes have declined to appeal for obvious reasons, your skepticism is misplaced and based on unrelated issues.

 

[dowie]

Algeria would have her in prison if she was trans.

You're still confused, she isn't "trans".

Biologically she's a male with a DSD condition, she's likely been legally "female" since birth.

I know it's a bit confusing at times but it has been covered in the thread a few times now and it's not really all that complicated.

 

[scarps]

What are you referring to there? You seemed to be talking about doping or something? Could you maybe quote the bit you're thinking of?

Its in there

In-competition drug
testing occurs during a specified competition. Athletes are notified
that they will be tested upon completion of an event, during a competition.
Once notified, athletes are required to provide a urine sample while
at the competition site. The procedures by which an athlete is selected
for drug testing depends upon the organization that responsible for
process is random, based upon place-finish.

When you search for this article this comes up on the link.

Yes, Olympic boxers are drug tested during the Olympics. Athletes are notified that they will be tested upon completion of an event, during a competition. Every competitor who wins a medal will be tested, and overall, the IOC will test up to 400 samples every day for more than 240 prohibited substances12.

 

[tom_e]

I'm not under any misunderstanding there thanks, just because a rule is in place doesn't make it right or immune from criticism.

You don't seem to understand the issue though given the comparison you're making and for the reasons outlined - the issue isn't that every single male should absolutely beat every single female including Olympians ergo your observations of the match and subjective opinion re: advantages or lack of is totally irrelevant.

The pack of lies seems to be having more of an impact on the brain-dead left who seem to think she's a biological woman.



The tests are performed by laboratories not governing bodies, which I assume is what you mean but if so you don't have an argument... as the issue relating to the IBA isn't relevant to that!

WDA accredits laboratories if you want to be super pedantic btw. point is these are labs acceptable to CAS and both athletes have declined to appeal for obvious reasons, your skepticism is misplaced and based on unrelated issues.

I assume you mean WADA? The same people who accredited the Russian lab that did a really good job of pumping out fake results for the Olympics?

 

[dowie]

Its in there

In-competition drug
testing occurs during a specified competition.

You're still talking about doping or drug testing - the issue here isn't drugs it's a biological male competing in the female category.

 

[dowie]

I assume you mean WADA? The same people who accredited the Russian lab that did a really good job of pumping out fake results for the Olympics?

Is there anything to suggest that the two labs that conducted the tests were Russian?

More to the point - if the test results were false then why didn't the athletes object to them/appeal to CAS?

It's pretty obvious what has happened and the arguments against are just people who seem confused about what has actually occurred (still thinking that the Algerian is a biological woman or the issue is about trans/not trans) or pointless attempts at muddying the waters that don't stand up to scrutiny; mention something about Russia and the IBA and ignore everything else.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Just watched her latest fight and I’m struggling to see any of the physical advantages many claim she has over the rest of the competition.

Certainly isn’t power or speed so unless her condition meant she grew Inspector Gadget arms the only differences are the scientific ones.

Funny I was coming to post exactly the same, watched her fight looking at build etc and thought doesn't look anything special.

 

[tom_e]

Is there anything to suggest that the two labs that conducted the tests were Russian?

More to the point - if the test results were false then why didn't the athletes object to them/appeal to CAS?

It's pretty obvious what has happened and the arguments against are just people who seem confused about what has actually occurred (still thinking that the Algerian is a biological woman or the issue is about trans/not trans) or pointless attempts at muddying the waters that don't stand up to scrutiny; mention something about Russia and the IBA and ignore everything else.

My point was more that them being accredited doesn't make them infallible nevermind where they're based.

 

[C Kent]

Hasn't the person in question just beaten the pre comp favourite?

 

[dowie]

My point was more that them being accredited doesn't make them infallible nevermind where they're based.

But no one claimed they were infallible.

It's a bit of a moot point when they were tested twice at two different labs *and* in addition to that, if the tests were wrong, they'd have grounds to appeal at CAS, and could have demanded further testing - pretty obvious why they're not doing so.

 

[C Kent]

But no one claimed they were infallible.

It's a bit of a moot point when they were tested twice at two different labs *and* in addition to that, if the tests were wrong, they'd have grounds to appeal at CAS, and could have demanded further testing - pretty obvious why they're not doing so.

You wont get anyone make a counter point to both athletes not appealing to cas dude, its been said countless times and ignored, seems to be the 'argument' is "russia" every time

 

[scarps]

Hasn't the person in question just beaten the pre comp favourite?

Imane was the fav coming into it, though was ranked 5th. Highest ranked got beat today by Imane's next opponent in semi's

 

[One More Solo]

But no one claimed they were infallible.

It's a bit of a moot point when they were tested twice at two different labs *and* in addition to that, if the tests were wrong, they'd have grounds to appeal at CAS, and could have demanded further testing - pretty obvious why they're not doing so.

There are valid reasons why they may not appeal. They are banned from fighting in IBA sanctioned events but that’s rather moot if you’re fighting in other competitions, and possibly intend to go pro after the Olympics. The CAS process is likely to be expensive and drawn out and may ultimately have no bearing on their respective careers.

I am speculating, as you are, but it’s important to consider the alternatives.

 

[StriderX]

You wont get anyone make a counter point to both athletes not appealing to cas dude, its been said countless times and ignored, seems to be the 'argument' is "russia" every time

You don't think there is even a little bit of skepticism that is warranted when a country known for cheating at sports says something?

 

[dowie]

There are valid reasons why they may not appeal. They are banned from fighting in IBA sanctioned events but that’s rather moot if you’re fighting in other competitions, and possibly intend to go pro after the Olympics. The CAS process is likely to be expensive and drawn out and may ultimately have no bearing on their respective careers.

I am speculating, as you are, but it’s important to consider the alternatives.

Pure cope, again they failed testing twice from different labs... you guys are just making up nonsense because this has become a culture war topic.

An actual biological woman with a dodgy test result would have every reason to get another test done and object to the dodgy test, these people know full well that there isn't any point in doing that because they know the test results aren't the issue here.

One didn't bother appealing and the other initially went to appeal but withdrew it - they know full well that the details would be public as per Semenya.

 

[dowie]

You don't think there is even a little bit of skepticism that is warranted when a country known for cheating at sports says something?

You're still confused, about basically everything, he's pointing out that it's irrelevant to the point re: testing and lack of appeal to CAS - this has little to do with Russia, what do you think Russia has said that is relevant and what do you think the relevance is here?

 

[C Kent]

You don't think there is even a little bit of skepticism that is warranted when a country known for cheating at sports says something?

As has been said, both athletes could have gone to a CAS tribunal and provided evidence to prove the IBA claim as false, neither did (one never bothered, the other dropped the claim), why do you think that is?

 

[One More Solo]

Pure cope, again they failed testing twice from different labs... you guys are just making up nonsense because this has become a culture war topic.

An actual biological woman with a dodgy test result would have every reason to get another test done and object to the dodgy test, these people know full well that there isn't any point in doing that because they know the test results aren't the issue here.

One didn't bother appealing and the other initially went to appeal but withdrew it - they know full well that the details would be public as per Semenya.

It’s a bit rich to claim we’re wading in because it’s a culture war topic when your posting history suggests you have little more than a passing interest in sport, so it’s fascinating that you’re so invested in this. Have a look at Lizzy Banks who took 10 months and spent £40k to overturn a positive doping test due to contamination. It’s a hugely protracted process, heavily weighted against the athlete and it has to be for something.

It may well be the right decision has been made here but I’m not comfortable that there is enough information in the public domain to understand if that is the case or not.

 

[GGizmo]

What happens in what context?

I'm trying to ascertain does female high testosterone levels get an automatic ban when they reach a certain level?

 

[dowie]

It’s a bit rich to claim we’re wading in because it’s a culture war topic [...] Have a look at Lizzy Banks who took 10 months and spent £40k to overturn a positive doping test due to contamination. It’s a hugely protracted process, heavily weighted against the athlete and it has to be for something.

When you keep coming back with the flimsiest of arguments then it's pretty clear.

This has nothing to do with doping tests or drug testing so throwing in an anecdote about that is just ridiculous levels of cope. AFAIK this was PCR testing - remember from the pandemic? Are you going to join the ranks of the conspiracy theorists who thought Covid was fake?

So not only is it a very sensitive and specific test but it was carried out twice and they didn't appeal it for obvious reasons.

Any more lame duck arguments/cope?