Challenging a speed camera ticket due to no "change of speed" sign

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

The only time I speed is by accident, i.e. if the limit is unclear.
I did a speed awareness course 6 years ago* and found it very useful and quite amusing as the pair doing it had it off to "T". Online is cheaper for them (though I note they haven't reduced the price....) and more convenient for the person taking the course, but in some ways in person would be better if their goal really is reduced speeding.

* Interesting story behind that one. I had Ford Focus at the time which has a stock fault of dry joints on the instrument panel PCB causing spurious electronic issues. I stripped it all down resoldered the joints and solved the problem. But in order to do the job the needle had to be removed from the speedo and I thought I'd get the speedo spot on for accuracy on when I rebuilt it. Big mistake...... Normally speedos are 5 to 10% fast but I had forgotten mine was now spot on when I was driving at an indicated 35 past a speed camera. I was actually doing 35 and got done. I discovered that in Lincolnshire (where it happened) if I'd been going 1mph slower I would not have got a ticket ! Had the speedo been say 7% fast my indicated 35 would have been an actual 33mph, and no speeding ticket.....

Hell of an assumption that normally speedos are 5-10% "fast" and to drive to that.
The law allows a speedo to overread the speed by upto 10% but never to under read.

As such every manufacturer will err on the said of caution, but I cannot think of a car I have driven in the last 30 years thats been that far out.
Typically being 1-2mph out at 70 in my experience.
Mine now is I think 0.5mph out at 30mph, where when I slow to exactly 30 indicated for a camera they will tend to flicker between 29 and 30.
When an external source is used for speed, waze, external satnav etc I tend to get them reading 70 when my speedo declares 72.

My personal approach in unfamiliar areas is to err on the side of caution. So if unsure then 30.
Unless clearly everyone else is going faster, then just match their speed.
If its busy you have a benchmark from others and if its quiet then 30s fine.

Speed cameras should only ever catch non locals most of the time. Locals unless they are either 1) dumb as a sack of rocks and hence get them off the roads asap, or 2) distracted by something else like thinking about their work who get caught should probably not be driving anyway if getting caught by speed cameras.
I remember the speed cameras on the Haughley bends on the A14, where I drove them enough I could lift off sail through at speed limit and then mash the accelerator like every other "local"
Occasionally you would see someone sail through and get flashed who was either clearly unfamiliar and ignoring the limits, or a local who was massively distracted.
Both deserve a ticket anyway.

 

[SheffMan]

Hell of an assumption that normally speedos are 5-10% "fast" and to drive to that.
The law allows a speedo to overread the speed by upto 10% but never to under read.

As such every manufacturer will err on the said of caution, but I cannot think of a car I have driven in the last 30 years thats been that far out.
Typically being 1-2mph out at 70 in my experience.
Mine now is I think 0.5mph out at 30mph, where when I slow to exactly 30 indicated for a camera they will tend to flicker between 29 and 30.
When an external source is used for speed, waze, external satnav etc I tend to get them reading 70 when my speedo declares 72.

All my cars have been 5% plus fast (checked with GPS). They all read 75 odd at a genuine 70.
I suspect trucks have more accurate speedos than cars as they invariably travel slightly faster than cars through average speed limits at Motorway roadworks ?

 

[SheffMan]

Speed cameras should only ever catch non locals most of the time

I agree and have been saying that all along. I have then gone further to point out that, in my view, that is patently unjust.
Personally I do not think it is just because all locals who know where the speed cameras are, I think most people (as in over 50%) do actually stick to the speed limits, assuming they know what they are.....
This theory is supported by them extending the 30 limit about 100 yards near where I live after a long campaign by locals (incl myself) for a stretch of road with frequent accidents and one fatality*. It was also a stretch where people had to cross the road to get to the bus stop and the park. I said at the time not everyone will stick to it but most (as in over 50%) will, and that is what has happened.

*What it is not is a dual carriageway with a central reservation which had only had 6 "slight" accidents in 6 years (even though the A348 Ringwood Rd is a very busy through route).....

 

[ICDP]

I do find it funny when people claim their car is out by X% on the Speedo, so they drive to 73 as “it’s really 70”. I wonder do they also add another 5% on because there is a “bit of leeway on the speed limit”. Then start threads when caught speeding at 75 because they thought it was “really 70 when adjusted for inflation”.

I have a friend who has been on a few of the speed courses and finally had points added and a fine. I pointed out he is the type who is always running late. My advice was to stop leaving journeys to the very last minute… or to accept that being late is just going to happen. Either way it removes the low level stress and as a consequence the mental urge to speed.

 

[tom_e]

The only time I speed is by accident, i.e. if the limit is unclear.
I did a speed awareness course 6 years ago* and found it very useful and quite amusing as the pair doing it had it off to "T". Online is cheaper for them (though I note they haven't reduced the price....) and more convenient for the person taking the course, but in some ways in person would be better if their goal really is reduced speeding.

* Interesting story behind that one. I had Ford Focus at the time which has a stock fault of dry joints on the instrument panel PCB causing spurious electronic issues. I stripped it all down resoldered the joints and solved the problem. But in order to do the job the needle had to be removed from the speedo and I thought I'd get the speedo spot on for accuracy on when I rebuilt it. Big mistake...... Normally speedos are 5 to 10% fast but I had forgotten mine was now spot on when I was driving at an indicated 35 past a speed camera. I was actually doing 35 and got done. I discovered that in Lincolnshire (where it happened) if I'd been going 1mph slower I would not have got a ticket ! Had the speedo been say 7% fast my indicated 35 would have been an actual 33mph, and no speeding ticket.....

Just accept that sometimes you speed, the only person in control of that car is you

 

[ICDP]

Just accept that sometimes you speed, the only person in control of that car is you

Exactly, drives to some arbitrary made up “limit”, has been in multiple speed courses… but apparently they only speed by accident. Maybe there’s a learning opportunity in here somewhere?

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I agree and have been saying that all along. I have then gone further to point out that, in my view, that is patently unjust.
Personally I do not think it is just because all locals who know where the speed cameras are, I think most people (as in over 50%) do actually stick to the speed limits, assuming they know what they are.....
This theory is supported by them extending the 30 limit about 100 yards near where I live after a long campaign by locals (incl myself) for a stretch of road with frequent accidents and one fatality*. It was also a stretch where people had to cross the road to get to the bus stop and the park. I said at the time not everyone will stick to it but most (as in over 50%) will, and that is what has happened.

*What it is not is a dual carriageway with a central reservation which had only had 6 "slight" accidents in 6 years (even though the A348 Ringwood Rd is a very busy through route).....

Why is it patently unjust that someone who is unfamiliar with an area who is most of the time not capable of following the road laws gets a ticket, when locals who will be driving similarly but who have exact knowledge of the road can avoid it?

You have already clearly shown you don't stick to the limits by trying to game the camera in Lincolnshire

FWIW if you really want to check your speedo for accuracy then use the roadside milemarkers and a mate with a stopwatch. Assuming your capable of sticking to a speed.
GPS etc is ok but its not fully accurate.

Wonder what cars your driving to be that far out, as I said I cannot remember a car that far out. Modern cars just arent in my experience.
I've driven probably 50 different cars in the last 30 years.

Who cares if its a dual carriageway, many were built when we simply had far less concern for many factors.
The limit is the limit.

 

[Nasher]

TBH there are so many cameras around now, it's risky to speed on any road you don't know. If you know the road and it's a camera void, have some fun while you still can. Before we're all forced in to EVs with hard locked speed limiters and DVLA monitored trackers.

 

[SheffMan]

I do find it funny when people claim their car is out by X% on the Speedo, so they drive to 73 as “it’s really 70”. I wonder do they also add another 5% on because there is a “bit of leeway on the speed limit”. Then start threads when caught speeding at 75 because they thought it was “really 70 when adjusted for inflation”.

My speedo was 7% fast and then was spot on after I'd rebuilt the instrument panel, there is no "claim" about it !

 

[SheffMan]

I have a friend who has been on a few of the speed courses and finally had points added and a fine. I pointed out he is the type who is always running late. My advice was to stop leaving journeys to the very last minute… or to accept that being late is just going to happen. Either way it removes the low level stress and as a consequence the mental urge to speed.

This is very true.

 

[SheffMan]

Exactly, drives to some arbitrary made up “limit”, has been in multiple speed courses… but apparently they only speed by accident. Maybe there’s a learning opportunity in here somewhere?

I drive to the speed limit and only speed by accident when the limit is unclear, usually in an unfamiliar area.
I have had two speeding tickets in 40 years, and of them I wouldn't have had one if I hadn't been so stupid as to make my speedo bang on accurate when I rebuilt it.

That said, I am pretty certain I will get more speeding tickets, as will most people, because I am an imperfect human being and there are more and more speed limits being imposed in more and more unexpected areas, and there are more and more cameras. The only way I will defn avoid any speeding tickets is when cars all have GPS controlled throttles and cannot break the speed limit, something I would personally be happy about as it would make driving that bit less stressful.

 

[SheffMan]

Who cares if its a dual carriageway, many were built when we simply had far less concern for many factors.
The limit is the limit.

I think most people expect (and sub consciously think) the speed limit would be 40 on a primary route dual carriageway with a central reservation.

>>The limit is the limit.<<

Nobody could disagree with that, though there is some question as to why they reduced the limit on the A348 at that particular point, and various newspaper articles (and a few posters on this thread) prove it's not just me that thinks that.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I think most people expect (and sub consciously think) the speed limit would be 40 on a primary route dual carriageway with a central reservation.

>>The limit is the limit.<<

Nobody could disagree with that, though there is some question as to why they reduced the limit on the A348 at that particular point, and various newspaper articles (and a few posters on this thread) prove it's not just me that thinks that.

Most people think that, are you sure?
A dual carriageway in a populated area can be anything, 30/40/50/60/70 there is pretty much no precedent.

Again, people can say and question all they want about limits. Bets on they are all people "questioning" are those who failed the ability to not get a ticket
If you that interested in road speed limits and safety then get into a position you can influence them.
Otherwise you have no idea and are shouting at the wind. (By you here I mean all the people questioning, not you specifically)

What exactly did you do to your speedo to get it spot on?

 

[200sols]

I live in Sheffield and therefore I am unfamiliar with the roads and constantly changing speed limits down there.

If you cant handle changing speed limits you should hand your license back now.

 

[Brun]

But in order to do the job the needle had to be removed from the speedo and I thought I'd get the speedo spot on for accuracy on when I rebuilt it.

I'm struggling to understand how you can make a speedometer more accurate by doing this.

 

[SheffMan]

If you cant handle changing speed limits you should hand your license back now.

Are you saying everyone who gets a speeding ticket should hand their licence back ? ! ?

 

[SheffMan]

What exactly did you do to your speedo to get it spot on?

From memory the needle was mounted on a finely splined shaft and could be moved slightly one way or the other.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

From memory the needle was mounted on a finely splined shaft and could be moved slightly one way or the other.

I suspected so.
So basically you moved something that was variably "incorrect" and adjusted it by a fixed amount.

So you didn't fix it at all, you made it basically illegal, because a low speeds it would under read in order at high speeds to match the "correct" speed.

 

[ICDP]

I'm struggling to understand how you can make a speedometer more accurate by doing this.

You can’t. It’s like changing a clock to count 59 seconds for every minute because it’s a minute slow now and again. Speedometer’s need to be calibrated for the entire range.

Let it go OP, every time you post about speeding “accidentally”, all we read is that you speed constantly. Put down the shovel.

 

[SheffMan]

I suspected so.
So basically you moved something that was variably "incorrect" and adjusted it by a fixed amount.

So you didn't fix it at all, you made it basically illegal, because a low speeds it would under read in order at high speeds to match the "correct" speed.

Not sure about that, the biggest problem I had was getting the dials calibrated, i.e. the pointers put back in the right positions on the shafts, in fact I had to take them off and put them on again a few times before they seemed correct. Experimentation, and watching the various videos closely, seemed to indicate that you had to wind the shafts anti-clockwise till they clicked, then put the pointers on aiming at a point a few mm below the bottom most gradation of each dial. I had actually marked that point in pencil on each dial before dismantling.