charles and camilla attacked

[Castiel]

Oxford and Cambridge charge a lot more then 3.2k anyway

Science based courses at Oxford can cost up to £27,000 per annum. Just to put it into perspective.

http://www.cherwell.org/content/8122

Full list of fees for Oxford for the 2010/11 intake:

http://www.ox.ac.uk/feesandfunding/fees/information/universityrates/new fee rates/

puts some perspective on the £6k/£9k caps does it not?

 

[Tefal]

what the **** is going on with their country,that makes 50,000 people riot in the streets of the capital...

0.08% of the population are ****?

 

[Dolph]

Are you special needs ? Who goes to University to limit them selfs to earning 21k.

You need to visit speakers corner section and really read into this properly to understand the real implications of this bill passed.

Typical scenario

That **** fella in the video, his dad probably is some mini cab driver, get **** wages, cant afford to pay for his son's travel, accommodation, food and books.

That grant that you mention , will probably just about cover his expenses and material needed to study.

Students from poor backgrounds used to take that £2700 grant, top it up with University Busary or part time work and pay off their SLC loan.

The free grant wasn't meant to be used in that way, but a lot of poor kids were using that method to pay their fees.

So idiots use the system wrongly, and that's the fault of the system, not the idiot?

Another point, not all professions have high earning potentials.

for example teaching, average salary 21-24k and they reducing grant funding by 80%.

So how the hell is a NQT going to afford to budget and pay their debt with a 20-30k debt hanging over them.

Because it isn't a conventional debt, and isn't treated like one. The new system is effectively a capped graduate tax and presents a similar liability.

 

[leaskovski]

for example teaching, average salary 21-24k and they reducing grant funding by 80%.

So how the hell is a NQT going to afford to budget and pay their debt with a 20-30k debt hanging over them.

That 21k person would be paying it back off at £9 per month straight out of the wage. Hardly crippling!

Watch this http://www.bbc.co.uk/i/wmz3q/ (when it becomes available) and pay attention to the bit where the chap explains the carer situation.

 

[Lysander]

Are you special needs ?

No need to be quite so aggressive. We're actually trying to help you here. You do realise a lot of people on this forum are currently paying for peoples' university education?

Who goes to University to limit them selfs to earning 21k.

You shouldn't be thinking of university in that way. Uni is about going to study a subject you are passionate about and love, your vocation. It should not be an automatic path to cash on the other side. In fact, it's not anymore. You have Labour to thank for that. They conditioned young people to think they HAD to go to uni to get jobs and it backfired. It's not the Tories fault, they're trying to clear up this mess.

That **** fella in the video, his dad probably is some mini cab driver, get **** wages, cant afford to pay for his son's travel, accommodation, food and books.

**** me. Is he really going to spend his time studying. Really? REALLY? He doesn't get it at all. Neither do you. He'll spend most of uni smacked off his ****. I bet he hardly even knows what he wants to study there.

That grant that you mention , will probably just about cover his expenses and material needed to study.

It wasn't me, it was Tefal, but we're both trying to assist you. You didn't get a grant under Labour. So let's get this straight, the fees have been raised to try and iron out this dreadful financial crisis but a] the threshold for repayment has been raised and b] you get a grant. A grant. Which you don't have to pay back. You realise that most of the world laughs at us taxpayers anyway for funding YOUR education? In the US each student has to work for their education. It's not paid for them. God, you lot have it easy and you literally **** on the people who've given it to you.

 

[Amp34]

Are you special needs ? Who goes to University to limit them selfs to earning 21k.

You need to visit speakers corner section and really read into this properly to understand the real implications of this bill passed.

Typical scenario

That pakistani fella in the video, his dad probably is some mini cab driver, get **** wages, cant afford to pay for his son's travel, accommodation, food and books.

That grant that you mention , will probably just about cover his expenses and material needed to study.

Students from poor backgrounds used to take that £2700 grant, top it up with University Busary or part time work and pay off their SLC loan.

The free grant wasn't meant to be used in that way, but a lot of poor kids were using that method to pay their fees.


Another point, not all professions have high earning potentials.

for example teaching, average salary 21-24k and they reducing grant funding by 80%.

So how the hell is a NQT going to afford to budget and pay their debt with a 20-30k debt hanging over them.

Sorry but what are you talking about? That is about as wrong as you can get. You get a loan designed to cover the tuition fees from the government, you don't get the chance to spend it on other things as it goes straight to the uni you go to, same with any fee grants. You also get a maintenence loan and grants to pay for housing and food etc. which is the money you are actualy given. The latter will not change, the former will now change to up to £9k depending on cost of the course you do.

All of that money (with the obvious exception of the grants) will then make up your student loan that you will start paying back when you reach £21k. It really makes no difference in the "can I afford uni" stakes as, like now you will only have to pay back money after you graduate...

 

[Egon]

They (the minority responsible for the violence) are complete scum. I hope the police smashed their faces in.

Oh the irony.

 

[platypus]

And the worst post of the week award goes too..

Is it right that poor kids won't be able to go to redbrick or Russell group Universities because their families are on low income ?

Have you read anything about the rise in tuition fees?

So basically government have given an ultimatum, study degrees that are useful and know you will get a return on your investment.

Study a **** degree like media etc and graduate, don't manage to find a job in your field, settle for 9-5 as estate agent.
You end up in a sticky situation, **** job and money and a uni debt hanging over you.

You say this as if its a bad thing? What is a bad thing is mr and mrs taxpayer being expected to fund more media studies or golf course management degrees.

 

[Castiel]

Sorry but what are you talking about? That is about as wrong as you can get. You get a loan designed to cover the tuition fees from the government, you don't get the chance to spend it on other things as it goes straight to the uni you go to, same with any fee grants. You also get a maintenence loan and grants to pay for housing and food etc. which is the money you are actualy given. The latter will not change, the former will now change to up to £9k depending on cost of the course you do.

All of that money (with the obvious exception of the grants) will then make up your student loan that you will start paying back when you reach £21k. It really makes no difference in the "can I afford uni" stakes as, like now you will only have to pay back money after you graduate...

Indeed, you could have a £1,000,000 student loan and still only pay back 9% of your earnings above £21k over 30 years before it's written off.

Why can't people see the simplicity of this.

 

[scorza]

People don't need degrees to challenge authority and ask questions, that's a stupid comment.

One thing you should have learnt before university is basic reading comprehension. I didn't say you needed a degree to challenge authority did I? I said a degree encourages that behaviour, that's all

Degrees are NOT as useful as they were anymore. Hence why this country is drowning under a glut of jobless graduates.

Nothing to do with the worst recession in living memory then? Try telling employers that degrees aren't as useful as they were - the only reason we have as many students studying degrees as we do now is because employers have been, and still are telling government that's what the UK economy needs to compete globally.

 

[Lysander]

Why can't people see the simplicity of this.

'Cause they wanna rumble, innit!

 

[lixxus]

Sorry but what are you talking about? That is about as wrong as you can get. You get a loan designed to cover the tuition fees from the government, you don't get the chance to spend it on other things as it goes straight to the uni you go to, same with any fee grants. You also get a maintenence loan and grants to pay for housing and food etc. which is the money you are actualy given. The latter will not change, the former will now change to up to £9k depending on cost of the course you do.

All of that money (with the obvious exception of the grants) will then make up your student loan that you will start paying back when you reach £21k. It really makes no difference in the "can I afford uni" stakes as, like now you will only have to pay back money after you graduate...

I'm on about the current system with the £900 grant instalments given to low income families.

The poor kids are angry because they cant leverage that money to push forward to paying their loan.

As you said they not supposed to use it to spend lavish on clothes and computer parts but they do. lool

And the smart ones use that free £2700 grant to pay off the tuition fee loan that is paid directly to the university.

 

[platypus]

Indeed, you could have a £1,000,000 student loan and still only pay back 9% of your earnings above £21k over 30 years before it's written off.

Why can't people see the simplicity of this.

Because people are too busy believing the media hype and the protesters who prefer violence to a simple, peaceful solution.

On the BBC news this morning, I can't remember her position this morning, but someone who is the representative of the London students spouted utter rubbish. If the leaders and representatives don't know what is actually going to happen, what chance do the people that listen to them?

 

[Lysander]

One thing you should have learnt before university is basic reading comprehension. I didn't say you needed a degree to challenge authority did I? I said a degree encourages that behaviour, that's all

You were defending university degrees and using that point as a crutch. Don't try and turn it round.

Try telling employers that degrees aren't as useful as they were

But a lot of them aren't. A lot of them don't mean anything. At all. What counts now is experience. Every man and his dog has a degree. As soon as something becomes ubiquitous it loses its value. Students DO have it hard now, probably harder than in years - I agree. But this is not the fault of the current government.

 

[lixxus]

And the worst post of the week award goes too..


Have you read anything about the rise in tuition fees?

You say this as if its a bad thing? What is a bad thing is mr and mrs taxpayer being expected to fund more media studies or golf course management degrees.

Its not a bad thing lool. I like the reform, I just think they are going about it the wrong way.

I am all for removing these bogus vocational type Degree's, University should be for the best and brightest in the country that will innovate and make a difference.

Not for Hood rats that are looking to kill time on tax payers money.

 

[Casdawer]

Wow, a lot of people really need to calm down.

The new system is a lot better than the old system. People who don't believe this need to actually look at what the new system does before they start judging it.

 

[Castiel]

One thing you should have learnt before university is basic reading comprehension. I didn't say you needed a degree to challenge authority did I? I said a degree encourages that behaviour, that's all

Standard education should encourage this to begin with. You don't nor should you require a degree to encourage you to think for yourself.

 

[Tombstone]

What counts now is experience. Every man and his dog has a degree.

Must admit that I now pretty much ignore qualifications and base much more on experience, its simply far more useful to me to have someone who has actual practical experience of the task at hand than someone who has a piece of paper telling me that in essence they know what to do.

 

[Tute]

I can't understand why you think that these students shouldn't pay for their future!

I don't believe that at all. I don't support free Universities in any way, shape, or form (Scotland i'm looking at you).

Imagine the scenario. 2 school leavers. One gets a job paying £11k a year. The other decides to go and study and expects the person on £11k a year to fund his study. The student then leaves Uni and gets a debt free ride even though he'll be on a very decent wage.

It's not a debt free ride? I'm going to be leaving Uni with debts of the region of £15K. Whilst it's not a conventional debt, that's better than anything upto £36K.

Also, the person in the job isn't "funding his study" because it's not as simple as that. The person working pays taxes. The government then redistributes this to cover where spending is needed. If the second person didn't go to Uni, the first would still have to pay those same taxes!

Does that really sound fair?

No, but then what you've put is wrong. Does tripling the fees sound fair? What if they tripled fuel duty? Or council tax? I bet people would whinge then.

Oh, and in before the "student loan is not a tax" - but that's not the point here, as i've addressed before.

I'd put the fees at an even higher rate. It might put a lot of people off actually going to Uni for the wrong reasons. Uni's need to be elitist to some extent. Too many scumbag chavs are going for the wrong reasons.

Hmm, maybe you just want this to happen because you have an elitist attitude? I think it's fantastic how affordable and freely available education is in this country.

 

[scorza]

Standard education should encourage this to begin with. You don't nor should you require a degree to encourage you to think for yourself.

Another one who can't understand basic English.