charles and camilla attacked

[scorza]

If you have zero chance of paying off the loan it means you are earning under £21k a year and so aren't paying anything anyway. You only start paying for it after that threshold. It is sort of like a graduate tax but you don't have unlimited liability...

No, ministers have admitted that half of all graduates will not pay back the loan in its entirety. This is why the proposals simply do not add up and once adopted will almost certainly change so that students have to pay even more.

With a graduate tax you have zero debt, under these proposals someone doing a degree in Medicine could end up with a debt of £70k from tuition fees alone (Source)

 

[Ziggy]

So true, probably earning 12k a year and moaning about paying for students.

LMAO

Nah most are just 20 year olds who are bitter about having to work.

 

[BennyC]

However having watched that tv shower "coppers" it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the police were being their normally heavy handed arrogant selves, causing this to escalate. When something like this kicks off, the actually actions of calming it down will only add to the problem. If it starts, it ain't going to stop until it gets dark and cold.

If you're not going to protest peacefully then what do you expect. Sure you might want to stand on the front line protesting well within your rights not stepping out of line. Though if you're stood next to 10 trouble makers who have gone out with the sole intention of covering police in paint and being a nuisance what do you expect?

If I ever end up protesting against anything I'll make sure to move away from anybody being idiot. Leave yourself stood next to the trouble makers then don't be suprised if you're mistaken for one amongst the adrenaline felt by the police. You don't need to be on the front line in the police's face to make your point. I saw several other clips of small protests that had no problems what so ever.

Watching that copper that got seperated from his line and attacked made me feel sick yesterday. It's his job. For all they knew he might well have been against increasing fees. Yet they attack him like mindless idiots.

In my opinion after the disgusting display this last few weeks a rise in fee's doesn't bother me in the slightest.

 

[steve-h]

The students shouldn't have started violent protests. There are other ways for them to get the governments attention...

The overwhelming majority didn't. Not that either ways of protesting were likely to change anything at all.

 

[platypus]

The students shouldn't have started violent protests. There are other ways for them to get the governments attention...

The Houses of Parliament are completely shielded from outside noise anyway, it's not as if they would have heard the riots. And given that they're not allowed external media sources in the Commons, they wouldn't actually have known people were outside rioting unless someone specifically told them.

 

[Castiel]

thats just stupid, my brother did a degree... he got a job straight away he answered the phones at the lotter for 4 years now he sells his body for medical experiments, and sleeps with very rich men... (i'm not sure how much he uses his degree though, or how much it contributes)

Hahahaha, you're not a real person are you!

 

[Greg0986]

The Houses of Parliament are completely shielded from outside noise anyway, it's not as if they would have heard the riots. And given that they're not allowed external media sources in the Commons, they wouldn't actually have known people were outside rioting unless someone specifically told them.

Good point

Also the driver should know where he was going. Must be new

 

[Castiel]

No, ministers have admitted that half of all graduates will not pay back the loan in its entirety. This is why the proposals simply do not add up and once adopted will almost certainly change so that students have to pay even more.

With a graduate tax you have zero debt, under these proposals someone doing a degree in Medicine could end up with a debt of £70k from tuition fees alone (Source)

Zero debt but unlimited liability. Work that out, any sensible person would definitely not subject themselves to an unlimited liability if they had a choice and that in itself would mean that prospective students from poorer backgrounds will balk at the thought of entering university as they would be liable for extra taxes for the rest of their lives.

The level of debt is immaterial as it is wiped off after 30 years anyway and it is charged at 9% of your income over the threshold. What you are suggesting is that they pay that 9% forever with no top end to the amount they pay.


Good god, how dumb have you got to be not to get this.

 

[Brian8bit]

Watching that copper that got seperated from his line and attacked made me feel sick yesterday. It's his job. For all they knew he might well have been against increasing fees. Yet they attack him like mindless idiots.

My mum mentioned that to me and she said the first thing that popped into her head when they started swarming on him was of the Corporal Killings in the late 80s over here when the RA got two squaddies who'd stumbled into an IRA funeral.

 

[scorza]

Zero debt but unlimited liability. Work that out, any sensible person would definitely not subject themselves to an unlimited liability if they had a choice nad that in itself would mean that prospective students from poorer backgrounds will balk at the thought of entering university as they would be liable for extra taxes for the rest of their lives.

Tax is not a liability until after it has not been paid. The graduate tax proposed by the NUS would be for a limited period (25 years) and have an overall maximum amount. I wish people would actually read proposals before jumping in and commenting on them.

 

[dowie]

I doubt that very much, the vast majority of people are not Graduates. A nice citation showing that graduates as a group contribute more in income taxes than the rest of the population would be welcome... You are basically saying that 19% of the population (those with degrees) are funding the entirety of the UK and that 81% are sponging off of them.

No - not funding the entire UK but certainly paying much more than their share.
The rest of the UK is in effect subsidised by high earners (mostly in London and the South East) and the vast majority of people in the upper income brackets are graduates.

Essentially non-grads can GTFO they mostly don't earn enough to even really have the right to moan about their (supposed) tax money being spent or not spent on students.

 

[Nitefly]

Poor, deprived student then I see...

Absolutely, must be a right struggle putting him through university.

Why does that matter? You don't have to be a poor person to protest the fee increase.

Shocking display of behaviour, but at least he has offered his sincere apologies.

 

[Brian8bit]

sincere apologies.

********.

 

[Nitefly]

********.

Did you actually read the article?

Or does the hater in you just want to hate?

"I would like to express my deepest apologies for the terrible insult to the thousands of people who died bravely for our country that my actions represented.

"I feel nothing but shame. My intention was not to attack or defile the Cenotaph.

"Running along with a crowd of people who had just been violently repelled by the police, I got caught up in the spirit of the moment.

"I did not realise that it was the Cenotaph and if I had, I certainly would not have done what I did.

"I feel additionally mortified that my moment of idiocy has distracted so much from the message yesterday's protest was trying to send out.

"Those who are commemorated by the Cenotaph died to protect the very freedoms that allow the people of Britain the right to protest and I feel deeply ashamed to have, although unintentionally and unknowingly, insulted the memory of them.

"Ignorance is the poorest of excuses but I am sincerely sorry."

 

[atpbx]

Don't mean to be rude, but who's to say the vast majority causing trouble are students? It's not like they have been doing ID checks :wack:.

If yobs heard there was a demo that might be fiesty, then they'd prob go because they want to have some fun etc.

Be interesting to see if the majority of those convicted are even students, but I don't think the media would give a **** about that, because it doesn't help the story/sell papers.

Students are supposed to be clever yes?

Students arrange mass protests in london, shocked when protests get hijacked by trouble making tools?

Surely a case for less students, as the fewer there are the less likely we are to see such blatent displays of breathtaking stupidity as they have shown here in thinking that such a protest would EVER be peacefull.

Students in brain dead, no experience of the real world shocker.

 

[dowie]

Actually, the net contribution point varies quite dramatically depending on welfare entitlement, you don't have to be earning a fair bit over the national average to pay your own way if you are a single, childless, private accommodation paying (rental or mortgage) household, because you get pretty much no government support, and little benefit from many state provided facilities.

On the flip side, families with children, especially single earner families with children, have to be earning very large amounts before they become net contributors.

This is true - but I was merely talking about direct contributions to the overall tax pool - not what services etc.. you make use of after - you could go even further and talk about how often you visit the doctor, call the police, drive on public roads, send kids to school etc..etc... Perhpas people should get a tax break if they send kids to private school.

If anything, if we're looking at services used too then low earners are even more of a drain on the system - low income people are more likely to be obese, more likely to smoke/drink/take drugs, more likely to claim benefits at some point, have more kids who'll then need educating at state schools etc..etc..

But yes I do take your point, a healthy single male with no dependents does require less in the way of services from the govt. Still needs to make his contribution towards defence budget, police, NHS etc.. and the biggest expense of all - the welfare system.

 

[Brian8bit]

Did you actually read the article?

Or does the hater in you just want to hate?

I read the article. He claims he had no idea what the Cenotaph is? Maybe if he paid attention in Uni he'd have a clue. His apology has come only to deflect any damage to his father. He doesn't give a ****. Or he wouldn't have been swinging from it in the first place.

 

[Castiel]

Tax is not a liability until after it has not been paid. The graduate tax proposed by the NUS would be for a limited period (25 years) and have an overall maximum amount. I wish people would actually read proposals before jumping in and commenting on them.

The problem with the NUS proposals is that they were rejected by the Universities themselves as being unable to fund the shortfall.

It would have the top earners paying 2.5% of their salary and the lower earners paying 0.5% with the cap set at £15,000. Well to begin with this makes the lowest earners worse off to begin with.

The only supposed benefit of a graduate tax over the proposed loan system is that it avoids the headline fee. Graduates will still have to pay the fee, they just do not know what it is and it bears no relation to the course they have studied.

The biggest lol is that the proposed NUS graduate tax is just a watered down version of the very thing they are up in arms about.

I find it funny that you support something that means that a real graduate tax looks remarkably similar to a system of fees and loans.


I assume you have not heard of such as thing as Tax Liability either.

 

[Castiel]

Why does that matter? You don't have to be a poor person to protest the fee increase.

Shocking display of behaviour, but at least he has offered his sincere apologies.

Hrumph!, are they sincere however. I doubt it.

 

[Castiel]

No - not funding the entire UK but certainly paying much more than their share.
The rest of the UK is in effect subsidised by high earners (mostly in London and the South East) and the vast majority of people in the upper income brackets are graduates.

Essentially non-grads can GTFO they mostly don't earn enough to even really have the right to moan about their (supposed) tax money being spent or not spent on students.

I think you will find that the figures do not bear out the claim that the vast majority of high earners are graduates either.

As I am one of those high earners I will complain about my tax contribution being wasted on nonsense degrees all I like, thanks very much.

Essentially you are talking a load of tosh and unless you can support your assertions with citations regarding the percentage of tax income from graduates compared to that of everyone else that is all it is.