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China's 'wet markets' have reopened

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Vega, Apr 3, 2020.

  1. Amnesia

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 22, 2007

    Posts: 8,921

    Location: Buckingham Palace

    Would you say the same if they were eating humans ?

    oh and pangolin and bats back on the menu yay
     
  2. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 24,914

    That seems like an reductive argument to me...

    Ignoring my empathy for animals for a moment, if the dogs are treated well enough (obviously most aren't in this situation, but if they were...), why is it cruel to eat them as apposed to pigs?

    For some extra contemplation, what about designer dogs? Is it more or less cruel to eat an animal or to make it suffer genetic defects forever for personal gratification?
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
  3. Amnesia

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 22, 2007

    Posts: 8,921

    Location: Buckingham Palace

    I didnt say it was cruel, i didnt make any argument or judge him in any way, i was just curious as to his position.
     
  4. robgmun

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 30, 2006

    Posts: 15,810

    Location: London

    I don't think these Markets will exist anymore in the same way. I've already hearing massive changes in attitude over in China and i think over the next few years these practices will die off finally. It was mostly the older generation that lived through the "great leap forward" that still eats everything and the social media star that wanted to eat something dangerous for likes.

    China is now looking into banning them:
    https://www.newscientist.com/articl...ife-trade-ban-could-become-law-within-months/

    And Shenzhen has already made big steps in the right direction:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-52131940

    But culture will need to change, the best way to stop these practices is not just to ban them but to make them socially unacceptable so that people will apply social pressure on others to stop looking for and eating these meats.
     
  5. rubberduck

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 8, 2004

    Posts: 4,025

    Yes this certainly applies to all 1.4 billion people in China, I asked every one of them and they all said yes.
     
  6. Psycho Sonny

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 21, 2006

    Posts: 32,895

    If you were to look at it from outside the box. Killing a deer is no different to killing a human.

    Life is life.

    What I am saying is people shouldn't be eating meat at all and those that say humans were designed to eat meat don't have a clue.

    Our closes relatives are chimps. They eat insects but I don't see any of them taking down large animals like cows and eating beef burgers.

    I have been strongly considering going vegetarian for nearly 2 years now. It would be easy since majority of my meals already are plus my wife hasn't ate meat since she was a child. So majority of home cooked meals are vegetarian in my household.

    I'm also lactose intolerant. So I have no dairy milk. I do have butter and Yogurt here and there but not in large quantities. I wouldn't go vegan but I have already cut majority of dairy from my diet.

    Put it this way. If the UK ran out of food. And people were dying in the streets I guarantee you people would eat other people here in the UK. Its not as if the people here are any different just that they have been told from birth its okay to eat everything on this menu. And all this stuff you can't.

    Much like the flowers and weeds. Think about it weeds are flowers. Just someone decided they don't look as nice and they should be ripped out and replaced with stuff that looks nice. Logically it makes zero sense other than to please other people who think your garden looks nice because they are programmed to think it looks nice.

    If they want to eat bat's it's hypocritical for any meat eater to say they can't. Only a vegetarian can but then they will say that for all meat and that is what I am getting at the 2 are no different. They can eat dogs all day long.
     
  7. Psycho Sonny

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 21, 2006

    Posts: 32,895


    Explain how chicken farming isn't any different?

    Selective breeding for weight.

    Legs that can't support their own weight which break.

    Heart attacks caused by their hearts exploding due to the sheer amount of stress put on their infant bodies within weeks.

    I'm not the one without a clue here it is you.

    The meat industry is just as bad just that your eyes are shut to it all.

    But of course you aren't going to do any research on the matter as it goes against everything you just said.

    If chicken farming isn't barbaric then I take it we can just go around breaking people's legs for fun, throwing babies through the air and making people's hearts explode through manipulating their genes to breed only humans that grow abnormally fast and for pure weight gain.

    Like I said I'm not the one without a clue here it's you. Although I would never suspect someone who spends £500 on a car to have any real clue about anything in life. As how could they afford to do so?
     
  8. moon man

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 17, 2003

    Posts: 2,898

    Location: St Breward Cornwall

    The best way to avoid speciesism is to avoid animal products full stop .its not that this is one side of the argument ,this is right and other opinions are wrong ,they just dont have the empathy or education to see it.
    the only blurred line i see is animal products that dont come from suffering ,here http://www.henheaven.org/ so the more they sell the more rescues occur.
    (keeps running for cover ;))
     
  9. checjb

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 2,318

    Location: Royston, Herts

    Is there since sort of vegan/vegetarian 'play book' about using chimps for arguments? I only ask because you're the third person I've seen using this same argument.
    Chimps not only eat insects but they also actively hunt meat. There are numerous documentary videos showing the practice and even Dr Jane Goodall recorded them leading organised, obviously well-practised, hunts of red colobus monkeys for food. Meat only makes up a small fraction (<5%) of their diet but they do hunt and eat meat.
    The analogy of them hunting cows should be embarrassing for you to reread. It's the first kind of strawman tactic. Of course they don't hunt cows and eat burgers. Cows don't tend to live in the same geographic locales, they're far larger and thus an active threat to a chimp and chimps don't cook or actively process their food.
    If you want to be a vegetation, go ahead but please stop preaching to others and, if that is just too hard for you, then at least try using facts, rather than emotive and nonsensical strawman arguments.
     
  10. Efour

    Caporegime

    Joined: Sep 8, 2005

    Posts: 25,668

    Location: Norrbotten, Sweden.

    I dont really wanna argue with you because we are both stubborn and have our opinions so no matter what... nothing changes but....

    1) a weed is a plant species that you have not planted as part of your garden. Gardens are planned and ordered man made creations, thus, ANYTHING that grows that you did not plan and plant is a "weed"
    Common weed species are weeds because they are super adaptive and rapid growing if given a chance. That is a weed. Of course a weed can look nice. A wild garden is equally as valid as a Planned garden. Its your purpose that decides.

    2)
    You seeming to be so blasé with cannibalism makes me laugh, as a near self confessed Vegan... I am still So So So happy that i have been told from Birth that cannibalism is like the 0.00001% last resort of survival and im sure after 14 days of starving id be ready to take the plunge too.

    3)Do you understand that We westerners differentiate between domesticated house animals and food animals. yes or no answer only.
    If yes i suggest that is why most people get upset when you/they eat our pets. Being outraged by that is a completely normal human thing......For me.

    #Its like saying when someone does a crime just execute them, doesn't matter how petty, crimes a crime. There are degrees of crime like we have given animals degrees of value.
    One set of humans doesn't follow my values and judgements, well its in my power to change them to see it my way. EXACTLY the same way that vegans and some veges preach to us.
    If no one is allowed to have an opinion on ANYTHING anyone does or says then thats a state of anarchy.

    Are you a hindu or buddhist? Its very rare people think its so "live and let live" that cooking "pets" is fine and acceptable in the UK. I mean why do we have laws protecting domesticated animals? Lets not even mention horses.

    Its fine, dont answer because you will just repeat yourself like i do and use the same patronising "stupid" or "uneducated" insults that have started going about.

    I literally dont think i have anything more to add now I will keep living my Superior way and not boiling my cats when its tea time.
     
  11. pooley

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 11, 2010

    Posts: 3,318

    Location: In the dwelling

    ah the term speciesism..just new age nonsense speak!
    useful idiots like joey armstrong loves using this shame people and to stop eating animal products to avoid such a daft term is even more retarded, we are obligatory carnivores to think otherwise is not based in reality.
     
  12. ahar

    Hitman

    Joined: May 6, 2011

    Posts: 775

    Location: Nr Watford

    I remember going to one of these kinds of markets in Xi'an years ago. Me and the missus were just entering and she saw a bucket full of terrapins and other assorted cute creatures. "Ah, is this a pet market?" she asked. "Erm, not quite" I answered. She was pretty shocked at some of the sights!
     
  13. moon man

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 17, 2003

    Posts: 2,898

    Location: St Breward Cornwall

    agree to disagree
    https://www.peta.org/features/what-is-speciesism/

    but anyone who cant see it should sit down nicely in the corner with their crayons before attempting to educate themselves ,you know ,take things gradually ......:p (just to show i dont mind a bit of abuse from fellow oveclockers)
     
  14. Vega

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Dec 12, 2010

    Posts: 1,543

    Location: Washington D.C.

    Honestly, even though when this is all said and done, with hundreds of thousands of lives lost (most outside of China where it began), the world is so f*ckd up that we will go back to the status quo. The West absolutely loves cheap Chinese goods and massive profits from cheap labor. The left in Western societies absolutely loves socialism and communism. Wet-markets will endure and we await the next pandemic. Here in the US, we have leftist reporters actively cheering China as some utopia. Never mind they didn't show you the people getting welded in their apartment buildings, or the people being killed if they were outside during curfew, or the people mass killing pets out of unfounded fears in China.

    The left will use every advantage they can during this crisis to politicize this to try and take out conservatives like Trump and Johnson. All the while cheering China and their "better form of government".
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
  15. Sankari

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 24,782

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    Why?

    It's illegal in Western countries, where we have the world's best animal welfare standards and the best quality food. And a culture that believes torturing animals to death is wrong.
     
  16. Psycho Sonny

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 21, 2006

    Posts: 32,895


    I'm a sikh.

    Sikhism teaches one thing but culturally Punjabis do another.

    Sikhism teaches you must not eat meat unless there is no other option and you will die. However all my sikh mates the majority of them eat meat. They all cut their hair, etc. Don't wear turbans.

    So they aren't following the teachings. Which is why you have bad sikhs who aren't really sikhs in the true sense but say they are.

    IMO telling china they cannot eat dogs is just as bad as if they were to turn around and say to you can't eat chicken. it's hypocrisy regardless of if you keep a dog as a pet or not.

    you shouldn't be eating any meat. humans can get everything they need from a plant based diet. i know strict vegetarians and arguably they are much much healthier than meat eaters who tend to be far more obese due to eating refined foods. vegetarians tend to cook a lot more food from scratch and use raw materials rather than ready made refined foods. i'm not saying they all do this as their will be vegetarians that are morons who eat potato waffles all day long. but the majority have much better diets than the majority of meat eaters.

    I'm not a vegetarian but you know what after all the meat is gone in my house I'm going to give it a try.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Size_Me_2:_Holy_Chicken!

    there are plenty of documentaries like the above on netflix which show you the meat industry and it's quite frankly disgusting you are eating pus. think about that. do you even know what pus is? also because the time to cut animals is decreased in slaughterhouses so profits are bigger. the butchers end up cutting stuff on accident and then you have faeces all over the meat, etc.

    it's absolutely vile. it's these documentaries not other people preaching to me have convinced me we shouldn't be eating that crap. also the absolute insanity and barbaric things that go on inside the chicken farms. watch the documentary and it's hard to agree that what the meat industry is doing is amazing. their cruelty is right next to chinas. i have a work ccolleague that keeps hens as pets. he eats their eggs but he would never eat them he said even though he eats chicken. so i get the whole bond and pet thing. but truth is the chicken he is eating has lived one of the worst lives you could possibly live.
     
  17. Psycho Sonny

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 21, 2006

    Posts: 32,895

    that is laughable - watch super size me 2 and come back and say that with a straight face.

    mad cow disease
    swine flu
    avian flu
    green chicken

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Size_Me_2:_Holy_Chicken!

    the documentary explains how that chicken got green and guess what it's got nothing to do with looking after the chickens best welfare, the complete opposite. bred to specific qualities which means they have terrible lives. their legs snap under their own weight. they can't move and their hearts explode.
     
  18. Sankari

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 24,782

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    Firstly, I have never seen an anti-meat documentary that was 100% honest, and fully supported by evidence. Secondly, no you are not eating pus or faeces, because any meat that was contaminated in this way would never make it past quality control.
     
  19. Psycho Sonny

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 21, 2006

    Posts: 32,895

    i just used it as an example that popped into my head.

    so do all monkeys eat meat or is it a select breed?
     
  20. Psycho Sonny

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 21, 2006

    Posts: 32,895

    then why is hepatitis the one you get from eating poo on the increase in western countries? i was told this by a doctor at a hospital FYI.