Chinese cars

MichaelAwkward said:
Spent just over 2 weeks in south west China recently (Yunnan mostly) and was shocked at how widespread electric adoption was (at least 75% of vehicles on the road, includings vans and buses) and all were pretty decently equipped. Most ICE vehicles I saw were parked up and looked like they hadn't moved recently.

Mostly used Didi to get around and I think we had... maybe 2 petrol car journeys in the time we were there. I assume they have deals with the car manufacturers to offer them cheaply to would-be drivers.
Click to expand...
Partly to do with the price of these electric cars too. Some start at around £7k.

I was at the BYD showroom at Westfield last week and the Seal starts from £45k, China's website shows it listed at £18k
 
Taxes, import tariffs, incentives/subsidies, on the road charges, shipping half was across the world.

You can’t just currency convert one price to another unless you can be sure it’s actually like for like.

It’s no different to when people compare the price of a Tesla America and complain a Model 3 isn’t £30k.
 
since ursulas in the news & talking about increasing chinese ev duty asap from 10->20% , would still like to know which specific brands of chinese ev are being bought in europe,
from below article their sales in europe don't currently seem enormous, plus the eu sourced cars will improved in availibility & price to compete, if indeed china represents real competition -
(have people buying a £45K car from a chinese firm with limited uk support, or pedigree, with unknown residuals had a lobotomy)

are they including re-branding like polestar/ex30 in the chinese contingent ?

Over the past decade, BMW, Audi and Mercedes-Benz have sold 19.2 million cars in China, making up 30 to 40 percent of each automaker’s global sales, according to data from Schmidt Automotive Research.

Yet even the highest rumored duty — 25 percent — would not be enough to deter Chinese brands thanks to their huge cost and technology advantages. Chinese EV sales into Europe grew by 23 percent, to nearly 120,000 units, in the first four months of this year.
Click to expand...
 
I don’t really understand what was written but the way tariffs work are not based on the ownership of the company that produced the vehicle, it’s where the vehicle itself was produced.

So examples of ‘Chinese’ cars include the Tesla Model 3 (not Y - now made in Germany), anything by MG, some Volvo’s and Polestars, pretty sure the BMW iX3 was produced in China also, it certainly was in the early days, it may have moved since.
 
cracking more eggs , not dinner time yet

A tarif distinction between cars made in china, with and without(?) chinese govt subsidy like tesla and bmw, would seem appropriate, eu rules of origin could be extended to make a distinction

anyway saw this which distinguishes chinese brands
2024_03_China-made-sales-transparent.png
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Due to my budget requirements I fully expect my first EV to be a Chinese model.

Everything else is just too expensive when a car isn't that important to you
 
I like the look of the model S personally, and i think the model 3 facelift just out now is a big improvement visually over the older one (there is something about the front of the older model - and the model Y - which does not do it for me)

as for the xiaomi (and other chinese cars).... I too think they look nice, but they are just "borrowing" the visuals of other cars.

as for all other EVs other than the teslas, i disagree to be honest, i think there are some nice looking cars, I like most of the peugeots at the moment, the jag ipace and the audi Etron GT and the nissan Airya (SP?) is one of the best looking "family" SUVs on the road at the moment imo.

the new renault EVs look nice , the Renault 5 fantastic and unless it ends up being a total dog i will be trying to persuade the wife to look at one in (hopefully) 5+ years time when she replaces her current car.... i also like the MG4 visually, and the new lotus ...... i would like one of those on my drive, but sadly dont have the wallet to afford it.
 
Last edited:
sounding like the coupe discussion, but why they don't build xiaomi and co. as a hatchback/fastback much more versatile, is the cost so much more,
they're typically poorer aero, or what ?... chinese don't DIY, or carry bikes.

If i had to eat chinese it would be the nio touring.
 
should be some good deals on likes of mg/saic in uk, if they'll have 50% duty in the eu from polling day.
who'll absorb the cost for upcoming eu fleet leases.

carnewschina.com

EU imposes additional tariffs on Chinese EVs: BYD 17.4%, Geely 20%, SAIC 38.1%

Other BEV producers in China, which cooperated in the investigation would be subject to duty 21%.
carnewschina.com carnewschina.com

The Commission has contacted Chinese authorities to discuss these findings and explore possible ways to resolve the issues. If ongoing discussions with Chinese authorities do not lead to a resolution, these duties will take effect on July 4. The duties will initially be guaranteed by a method determined by customs in each Member State and will only be collected if definitive duties are later imposed.

The individual duties the Commission would apply to the three sampled Chinese producers would be:

  • BYD: 17.4%
  • Geely: 20%
  • SAIC: 38.1%
Other BEV producers in China that cooperated in the investigation but have not been sampled would be subject to the following weighted average duty: 21%. All other BEV producers in China that did not cooperate in the investigation would be subject to the following residual duty: 38.1%

All mentioned duties are on top of existing 10% tariffs, EC confirms.
Click to expand...
 
jpaul said:
since ursulas in the news & talking about increasing chinese ev duty asap from 10->20% , would still like to know which specific brands of chinese ev are being bought in europe,
from below article their sales in europe don't currently seem enormous, plus the eu sourced cars will improved in availibility & price to compete, if indeed china represents real competition -
(have people buying a £45K car from a chinese firm with limited uk support, or pedigree, with unknown residuals had a lobotomy)

are they including re-branding like polestar/ex30 in the chinese contingent ?
Click to expand...
It's far from black and white isn't it! A big tariff to protect your EU domestic market could soon bite you on the backside when they return the favour and all of a sudden the Chinese don't want your Mercs, Beemers and VeeDubs.

Likewise VW are very much in bed with the 'enemy' with their SAIC link. That relationship is likely to be soured a touch.

I'll be very surprised if those percentages quoted aren't watered down significantly before July 4th.
 
Funny how they want to slap taxes on Chinese cars yet are fine to let other Chinese tat flood in unchecked and push higher quality, locally made products out of business.

A few fat envelopes being passed around in the EU I suspect. Wouldn't be the first time.
 
Last edited:
Nasher said:
Funny how they want to slap taxes on Chinese cars yet are fine to let other Chinese tat flood in unchecked and push higher quality, locally made products out of business.

A few fat envelopes being passed around in the EU I suspect. Wouldn't be the first time.
Click to expand...
It's the level of state subsidy leading to a massive uncompetitive advantage over other brands that is in question. It's not really about their price or being Chinese, it's about how they can be sold for that price in the first place.

This is the point I always try and make when it comes to Chinese EVs but I normally get shot down with the same old irrelevant "Good luck not buying anything from China" and "Wot phone are you typing that on" comments.
 
Nasher said:
Funny how they want to slap taxes on Chinese cars yet are fine to let other Chinese tat flood in unchecked and push higher quality, locally made products out of business.

A few fat envelopes being passed around in the EU I suspect. Wouldn't be the first time.
Click to expand...

You have no idea what you're talking about. Yes there is corruption in EU, but it's about the same level as UK.

The EU is happy with China flooding it's market with low tech products and products assembled in China, but designed in EU or US and with key parts made in Taiwan, SK and Japan. They are not happy with Chinese companies taking over big high tech markets, with products where all the technology, design, parts manufacturing and services are done in China.

It used to be that EU exported to China high tech stuff, sold with big profit margins. While China was selling to EU low tech, low profit products. That worked great for EU. But with the recent China advances in 5G, solar power, batteries and EVs this system is getting disrupted. EU (same as US) is trying to stop China from taking over key high tech and high profit industries using import fees, sanctions (Huawei) and denying advanced technology access (blocking ASML from selling modern lithography machines to Chinese companies).

We'll see if it works in the long term. Most young people in China spend a lot more time studying than the kids in the West and dream of becoming engineers and scientists - not influencers.
 
Last edited:
Europe doesn't seem to like being beaten to the punch by China. It's not surprising considering that China have been pushing electric cars for 20 years now as an official policy. Europe have been caught with their pants down and are trying to screw as much money out of the ICE setup by delaying the move to EV's. I think they have left it far to late, and many well know brands will go belly up/be taken over. When you think about it, it's not like German car manufactures are not supported by their government (4 billion in 2020, 1.5 billion in 2021 from a quick google). A lot of the big German brands are already worried about the new trade tariffs and are saying the tariffs shouldn't be happening. It's only a matter of time before China announce something similar imo, then we will start to see real panic.
 
A couple of years ago I went to a conference on EU innovation programs. A lot of high profile speakers - the European Commissioner for Innovation, prime ministers, top EU bureaucrats dealing with technology. Essentially most of the people who manage the EU innovation investments. The impression I got was they have no clue about technology. They don't fund companies doing real innovation because those don't have some sort of certificate (and EU issues just a few of those a year and they go to well connected people, and not real innovators). A lot of the money goes to companies that are advocating pseudo science. Also the fact that essentially every EU country gets a commissioner and the gave the Commission for Innovation to the poorest country in EU - Bulgaria speaks of how high among EU priorities innovation is.

On the other hand in China the government technology investment money are mostly managed by engineers with real world experience. When the central party committee says "we're going to develop EVs" everyone chips in - local authorities give free land to EV companies to build factories, existing car companies cooperate with EV makers to help them build factories or give them access to existing car factories, private investors and state banks flood the EV startups with money. Nothing like this happens in EU.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom